Author Topic: Clan from Fontan/Aurvandil now in Armonia  (Read 18531 times)

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Clan from Fontan/Aurvandil now in Armonia
« Topic Start: July 10, 2012, 09:49:19 PM »
Summary:Clan from Fontan/Aurvandil now in Armonia
Violation:Clanning
World:East Continent
Complainer:Alexandros Stavrou
About:Atticus R

Full Complaint Text:
Hello,
 

 
if you go through the list of Armonia, Fontanese/Aurvandil clanners are now there.
 

 
Armonia was even on chars with Eponllyn before the war now and now they are +10 chars.
 

 
Can something be done about this plague?
 

 

 
http://battlemaster.org/UserDetails.php?ID=30610
 
http://battlemaster.org/UserDetails.php?ID=33580
 
http://battlemaster.org/UserDetails.php?ID=33216
 
http://battlemaster.org/UserDetails.php?ID=30651
 
http://battlemaster.org/UserDetails.php?ID=31584

Bendix

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Re: Clan from Fontan/Aurvandil now in Armonia
« Reply #1: July 10, 2012, 11:43:49 PM »
Usually I dont get involved in ooc stuff, but this seems serious.

Armonia has always had about +5 active characters over Eponllyn; it was not even to begin with. Before the war started it was 26-21.

Most of the characters you mention here have been in Armonia since long before the war (40 days or more), and all joined at different times. We have received 6 new chars (not 10) in the last 2 weeks, but with the exception of the Nightshrouds, none of the newer characters have anything to do with Aurvandil or Fontan:

Able- 8 days
Julianne(me)- 8 days
Ramsey- 7 days
Roberd- 8 days

There may or may not be clan activity (I've seen nothing to indicate it other than the info you've provided here), but it is not related to the influx of new characters in Armonia.






Vellos

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Re: Clan from Fontan/Aurvandil now in Armonia
« Reply #2: July 11, 2012, 01:45:10 AM »
A few questions about this complaint. If these questions seem out of left field, just bear with me. Just want to get a feel for the facts:
1. Can someone testify to what happened in Nivemus at the end of May? I could 3 characters with connections to Aurvandil banned from Nivemus at that time. Nivemus/Aurvandil connections have been noted before.
2. Similarly, it would be valuable to me if someone can testify to the IC diplomatic relations between Nivemus, Armonia, and Fontan.

I don't want super IC, in-depth political analysis here. A simple, "Nivemus and Armonia are allies" will suffice. I have no idea what EC politics are, so I'm just trying to get the lay of the land here. Likewise, I'm interested in a "just-the-facts" OOC brief on what happened in Nivemus, as it seems to have affected migration/character creation for some of the accounts in question.
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Vellos

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Re: Clan from Fontan/Aurvandil now in Armonia
« Reply #3: July 11, 2012, 01:49:49 AM »
Oh, also... have they actually done anything exclusive or clannish? That's kind of hugely important.
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Ketchum

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Re: Clan from Fontan/Aurvandil now in Armonia
« Reply #4: July 11, 2012, 02:22:19 AM »
1. Can someone testify to what happened in Nivemus at the end of May? I could 3 characters with connections to Aurvandil banned from Nivemus at that time. Nivemus/Aurvandil connections have been noted before.
Speaking from my character Brock who was in Nivemus during the bans time.

Nivemus Judge Neji Uzimaki banned those Nivemus/Aurvandil connections nobles from Nivemus realm. Resulted in 1/4 nobles of Nivemus realm banned. He found those nobles not doing anything productive to the realm, beside protesting and opposing the realm leaders. That is the IC reason for banning. Uzimaki(I believe this is his forum login ID) can testify to this.
Werewolf Games: Villager (6) Wolf (4) Seer (3); Lynched as Villager(1). Lost as Villager(1), Lost as Wolf(1) due to Parity. Hunted as Villager(1). Lynched as Seer(2).
Won as Villager(3). Won as Seer(1). Won as Wolf(3).
BM Characters: East Continent(Brock), Colonies(Ash), Dwilight(Gary)

Draco Tanos

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Re: Clan from Fontan/Aurvandil now in Armonia
« Reply #5: July 11, 2012, 03:00:59 AM »
^
We in Westmoor banished several of the nobles that went to Nivemus (or fled when they knew they were going to be banned) for similar.  They did little but protest, complain, and soak up tax gold without actually contributing to the realm.  Most went to Nivemus though a few went to Fontan (and a few of them were booted off the continent for being Saxon clanners).

From my understanding, their general mindset continued in Nivemus.  If they've fled to Armonia... 

Ketchum

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Re: Clan from Fontan/Aurvandil now in Armonia
« Reply #6: July 11, 2012, 03:15:49 AM »
Noble banned!   (10 days, 21 hours ago)
message to all nobles of Nivemus

Neji Uzamaki, Legodos of Nivemus, Earl of Salta has declared Cesera Azul, Countess of Pucallpa an enemy of the realm and will issue a ban on her shortly. He has given the following reason:
Banned for conduct detrimental to the realm by the approval of the Kronogos and by the authority of the Legodos.
-----
Noble banned!   (10 days, 21 hours ago)
message to all nobles of Nivemus

Neji Uzamaki, Legodos of Nivemus, Earl of Salta has declared Czarixina Opvanova Eleonore Illithian (Dame of Pucallpa) an enemy of the realm and will issue a ban on her shortly. He has given the following reason:
Banned for conduct detrimental to the realm by the approval of the Kronogos and by the authority of the Legodos.
-----
Noble banned!   (10 days, 21 hours ago)
message to all nobles of Nivemus

Neji Uzamaki, Legodos of Nivemus, Earl of Salta has declared Ferleve de Hauteville, Countess of Oberndorf an enemy of the realm and will issue a ban on her shortly. He has given the following reason:
Banned for conduct detrimental to the realm by the approval of the Kronogos and by the authority of the Legodos.
-----
Noble banned!   (10 days, 21 hours ago)
message to all nobles of Nivemus

Neji Uzamaki, Legodos of Nivemus, Earl of Salta has declared Hyzenthflay Ahrairah (Dame of Pucallpa) an enemy of the realm and will issue a ban on her shortly. He has given the following reason:
Banned for conduct detrimental to the realm by the approval of the Kronogos and by the authority of the Legodos.
-----
Noble banned!   (10 days, 21 hours ago)
message to all nobles of Nivemus

Neji Uzamaki, Legodos of Nivemus, Earl of Salta has declared Icius Rae of the House of Drakon (Knight of Ashforth) an enemy of the realm and will issue a ban on him shortly. He has given the following reason:
Banned for conduct detrimental to the realm by the approval of the Kronogos and by the authority of the Legodos.
-----
Noble banned!   (10 days, 21 hours ago)
message to all nobles of Nivemus

Neji Uzamaki, Legodos of Nivemus, Earl of Salta has declared Sirius of the House of Drakon (Knight of Ashforth) an enemy of the realm and will issue a ban on him shortly. He has given the following reason:
Banned for conduct detrimental to the realm by the approval of the Kronogos and by the authority of the Legodos.
-----
Noble banned!   (10 days, 21 hours ago)
message to all nobles of Nivemus

Neji Uzamaki, Legodos of Nivemus, Earl of Salta has declared Iziaslav Principe (Knight of Obando) an enemy of the realm and will issue a ban on him shortly. He has given the following reason:
Banned for conduct detrimental to the realm by the approval of the Kronogos and by the authority of the Legodos.
-----
Noble banned!   (10 days, 21 hours ago)
message to all nobles of Nivemus

Neji Uzamaki, Legodos of Nivemus, Earl of Salta has declared Jaroslav Principe (Knight of Ashforth) an enemy of the realm and will issue a ban on him shortly. He has given the following reason:
Banned for conduct detrimental to the realm by the approval of the Kronogos and by the authority of the Legodos.
-----
Noble banned!   (10 days, 21 hours ago)
message to all nobles of Nivemus

Neji Uzamaki, Legodos of Nivemus, Earl of Salta has declared Kelsa Noyan (Dame of Pucallpa) an enemy of the realm and will issue a ban on her shortly. He has given the following reason:
Banned for conduct detrimental to the realm by the approval of the Kronogos and by the authority of the Legodos.
-----
Illegal Activities   (10 days, 3 hours ago)

Jaroslav Principe (Knight of Ashforth) has possibly broken the law about issuing or accepting a duel challenge. The judge should investigate the case.
-----
Noble Disagrees   (9 days, 9 hours ago)

Eotenas has expressed her disagreement with the Judge's recent actions. She is giving this reason:
Banning a large amount of nobles for no justifiable reason than your own fear, cowardice and prejudice.
-----
Noble has left   (9 days, 9 hours ago)

The player of Eotenas has deleted the character. The reason for leaving was: Eotenas retired in disgust and protest.
Her unit, the Nivemus Mailed Knights has been partly converted into a militia unit.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2012, 03:18:59 AM by Ketchum »
Werewolf Games: Villager (6) Wolf (4) Seer (3); Lynched as Villager(1). Lost as Villager(1), Lost as Wolf(1) due to Parity. Hunted as Villager(1). Lynched as Seer(2).
Won as Villager(3). Won as Seer(1). Won as Wolf(3).
BM Characters: East Continent(Brock), Colonies(Ash), Dwilight(Gary)

Ketchum

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Re: Clan from Fontan/Aurvandil now in Armonia
« Reply #7: July 11, 2012, 03:17:01 AM »
Reason for banning IC. The reason I post the previous post is to let us beware of all those players and character names.
-----
Quote
Letter from Neji Uzamaki   (10 days, 21 hours ago)

True Nobles of Nivemus,

Let me explain my recent actions thoroughly.

In most Monarchies, the Ruler is a strong power that rules over the realm wisely. He has a great degree of power so far as foreign relations go, and great power in the realm he rules as the head of the realm. He is the top of the chain of command. Arguably, in internal matters, the argument can be made that the Judge is then the next powerful position in the realm in internal matters. These two work together, one as head of the realm and the other as the legal authority, to keep the peace and to hold the realm to a high degree of honor and stability. This is the most fundamental duty of the Ruler and the Judge in a Monarchy.

Therefore, with the approval of Kronogos Talius, as well as the backing by Stratarchos Turgon, I have banned nine nobles, who some regard as Saxons, from the realm for continual conduct detrimental to the realms stability. Much thought and talk has preceded this action, and I can easily say it has been the hardest decision I have ever had to make in my career. But that does not mean I chose wrongly. Both Kronogos Talius, Stratarchos Turgon, and myself believe that Nivemus cannot move forward with these people running our suggestions into the ground(both in the council and in public), and causing an amount of instability in a realm which can only be seen in Fontan on this continent. These banning are the first step to continuing our growth and making a more stable, open realm. This realm has so much potential, but this realm is also living in a time where a realm of this size cannot afford to be constantly divided because one group wants power.

However, this is a big change, and one certainly not all of you will like. In my Judge Bulletin, I have a prologue to my Bulletin. This is what it says: 'The duty of the Legodos, or Judge of Nivemus, is to uphold a set of laws and principles in an objective and fair manner and to protect the interests and nobles of Nivemus. I have sworn to do that as long as I am Legodos and I assure you I hold myself to this standard with every decision I make.' This decision has forced me to come to a crossroads. Do I do what is objective and fair by the people's standards, or do I do what I know is in the interest of Nivemus due to my knowledge of being on the Council and watching such things unfold? As much as my prologue would make it seem like all matters of a Judge are black and white, they are not. Sometimes, there are shades of grey in which you must do what you know is right, even if it is hard and unpopular, and face the consequences, even if your decision is the best decision to be made.

Therefore, I am prepared to face a self-imposed consequence, as this was ultimately my decision. Elections will soon run, and I will not run in these next elections. I will, at least for a time, no longer be Legodos of Nivemus and I will let one of you be elected. I only ask of you, the True nobles of Nivemus, to not join the banned in their protests or rebellion or whatever the fall out is after these verdicts. No, I do not ask, I beg this of you. Nivemus needs this change. Perhaps more than even those who want this to happen realize. And if it fails... Ora help us all.

This is about what Nivemus needs to keep growing. Not anything else. Not about Stratarchos Turgon, or Kronogos Talius, and certainly not about me. I am less important than the needs of my realm and live trying to submit to the interests of Nivemus always. Therefore, as is written as the reasons for banishment, I have banned Cesera, Czarixina, Ferleve, Hyzenthflay, Icius Rae, Sirius, Iziaslav, Jaroslav, and Kelsa by the will of the Kronogos and for their continual actions detrimental to the realm.

For Nivemus,
Neji Uzamaki
Legodos of Nivemus, Earl of Salta
« Last Edit: July 11, 2012, 03:19:56 AM by Ketchum »
Werewolf Games: Villager (6) Wolf (4) Seer (3); Lynched as Villager(1). Lost as Villager(1), Lost as Wolf(1) due to Parity. Hunted as Villager(1). Lynched as Seer(2).
Won as Villager(3). Won as Seer(1). Won as Wolf(3).
BM Characters: East Continent(Brock), Colonies(Ash), Dwilight(Gary)

Foundation

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Re: Clan from Fontan/Aurvandil now in Armonia
« Reply #8: July 11, 2012, 03:35:42 AM »
Hehe, he helped expose/fix several bugs with banning too! :)
The above is accurate 25% of the time, truthful 50% of the time, and facetious 100% of the time.

Bendix

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Re: Clan from Fontan/Aurvandil now in Armonia
« Reply #9: July 11, 2012, 09:55:41 AM »
Nivemus and Armonia have had literally no contact at all. I sent a peace treaty offer a while ago, but got no response.

Many of the players in question do exhibit isolated behavior, but they are being mostly polite. Armonia is a fairly quiet culture, so it is hard to tell.

One case seems fairly disturbing, though- the player of the Griffirtaen family has this in his full family history:

http://battlemaster.org/UserDetails.php?ID=30651

2012-03-27      Caeranor Saegarus      Began his career in Fontan.
2012-04-22      Caeranor Saegarus      Forcefully deported by a GameMaster to Far East.
2012-04-25      Caeranor Saegarus      Joined the realm of Arcaea
2012-05-12      Caeranor Saegarus      Immigrated to East Continent.
2012-05-14      Caeranor Saegarus      Joined the realm of Fontan

He was forcefully deported from Fontan by a GameMaster, but returned less than a month later. He also has a character in Armonia.

On the other side, I don't think the player of the Nightshroud family is involve, since he was the person who brought this to my attention in the first place. He frequently interacts with other players, and his family history supports that.

Unfortunately I have little else to go on other than family histories; the players in question have been fairly careful about not drawing attention until now.

mikm

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Re: Clan from Fontan/Aurvandil now in Armonia
« Reply #10: July 11, 2012, 10:19:39 AM »
It does say "you are a member of a team" on the main page. These players took it very seriosly. They are a team after all.

Bendix

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Re: Clan from Fontan/Aurvandil now in Armonia
« Reply #11: July 11, 2012, 11:06:48 AM »
What main page?

Draco Tanos

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Re: Clan from Fontan/Aurvandil now in Armonia
« Reply #12: July 11, 2012, 11:46:48 AM »
http://battlemaster.org/

Quote
Some key points that make BattleMaster different from most other games, both browser-based and not:

you are a member of a team from the start, and don't have to start out on your own.
no boring grind
interaction with other players is a core element of the game, not an add-on.
playable on many levels, from order-following noble to the global politics playing king.
we dislike cheaters and abusers, and players and GameMasters cooperate on removing them.
no advertisement, and no game elements that exist only so you have to check back often.
Bolded the part that was being talked about, underlined the key part that if is the case, wasn't read!

egamma

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Re: Clan from Fontan/Aurvandil now in Armonia
« Reply #13: July 11, 2012, 02:14:18 PM »
Yes--the team is a realm made up of players. Creating your own team inside that team, and hurting the other players on the team, is against the rules.

vonGenf

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Re: Clan from Fontan/Aurvandil now in Armonia
« Reply #14: July 11, 2012, 02:43:27 PM »
Yes--the team is a realm made up of players. Creating your own team inside that team, and hurting the other players on the team, is against the rules.

That's quite a stretch. It's the OOC clanning that's a problem - everything IC is fine.
After all it's a roleplaying game.