REJECTED: Royal Granary and Royal Treasury

[vonGenf]

Also, according to the tax reports, which states, and I quote, "The crown has received 205 gold tax income thanks to a realm share of 10 %.
In addition, the realm made 430 gold from other sources (fines, etc.), bringing the crown's total income to 635 gold."
Certain positions do receive gold. I remember the same happening for the other council positions, at least before the new estate system took effect. I'm not sure if the separate positions each get a share of gold anymore or not.

The other council positions do not receive gold anymore. Only the ruler does.

[Gustav Kuriga]

Ah, thank you.

[vonGenf]

Thing is, Tom, you end up with situations where the banker has no ability to control the food in his own realm. Leading to two things, one nearly guaranteed, and the other likely. The first is that the Banker will have no power, and almost no purpose, his only ability being that of seeing where all the food is. The second is that you can end up with a situation like that you have in Morek, in which a rural lord has literally over 3000-5000 bushels all in one region (yes, this has happened, and I know exactly who is doing it and where), with no way for anyone to move ANY of that food back out again.

This particular Lord could be banned/exiled/disappeared, and you could nominate another Lord in his stead.

Or, you know, you could offer to buy his food.

[Tom]

in which a rural lord has literally over 3000-5000 bushels all in one region (yes, this has happened, and I know exactly who is doing it and where), with no way for anyone to move ANY of that food back out again.

And this is bad why? What a fantastic opportunity for some in-realm conflict!

[Tom]

Why not just give the banker an option to forcefully take food and move them to whereever he wants? But only once a turn and the amount should be limited to maybe to 100 bushels?

Why would I want to do such a thing?

Why is everyone so focussed on the perfect realm management strategy? Food belongs to the lord of the region, period.

[Gustav Kuriga]

I'm not a part of the realm, so I couldn't get him banned if I wanted to. Also, I didn't say that the situation was completely bad. Just saying that the Banker has less power than a rural Lord, which is kind of ridiculous for a council position.

And by power I mean mechanics wise. We're not including non-tangible things such as influence.

[vonGenf]

I'm not a part of the realm, so I couldn't get him banned if I wanted to.

That's...normal, I would say.

Also, I didn't say that the situation was completely bad. Just saying that the Banker has less power than a rural Lord, which is kind of ridiculous for a council position.

I don't think it's so unusual. Council positions are really just nobles who got a job as civil servants of the crown. The landed gentry is where the real power is. Of course, often they overlap.

[feyeleanor]

A banker's power is built on money, trade and above all relationships with the landed lords. It's soft power just like the Ruler's and General's.

[vonGenf]

Two, gold is given to characters, not positions or places.

I am indeed not a fan of the idea of the royal treasury, because I think the pocket of the ruler serves that purpose quite well.

However, I like the idea of a food tax that pushes some food upwards in the same way that the gold tax pushes gold upwards, with the banker as the final recipient. The problem is that the banker is not necessarily a region Lord, and therefore has no place to put the food in, so a new building would be needed.

[Tom]

Just saying that the Banker has less power than a rural Lord, which is kind of ridiculous for a council position.

And by power I mean mechanics wise. We're not including non-tangible things such as influence.

But that is what power is. He has less buttons to click, but whether or not that equates to less power or not entirely depends.

[Tom]

However, I like the idea of a food tax that pushes some food upwards in the same way that the gold tax pushes gold upwards, with the banker as the final recipient. The problem is that the banker is not necessarily a region Lord, and therefore has no place to put the food in, so a new building would be needed.

But food isn't supposed to be pushed upwards. And I don't see why it should be. I want power to rest with the landed nobles.

[Tom]

And you end up with situations like in Kindara, where a Duchess is apparently logging in enough to not auto-pause, but refuses to answer messages or appoint a lord to one of her rurals for more than a month. There's 1000 bushels of food stuck in that rural with no way to get it out while her city starves, and the duchess can't even be banned because she's a royal.

I apparently missed the part where anything is bad or needs change...

[De-Legro]

How about the fact that the rural has no lord, so, realistically, we could just go to the granaries and take the damn food. But apparently only the non-existent lord has the magical key to the unbreakable lock.

More then likely the granary guards don't recognise the authority of anyone else to access the food. After all bureaucrats continue to be bureaucrats even when there isn't a lord around. The food is held in surety for the next Lord after all. Beyond the absent Lord the region and thus the food may belong to the Duke/Duchess, you know the one that is the problem to start with. Or would you perhaps prefer that a new mechanic be introduced to circumvent the Duke/Duchess power within their own Duchy so we can avoid such things?

[Velax]

Or would you perhaps prefer that a new mechanic be introduced to circumvent the Duke/Duchess power within their own Duchy so we can avoid such things?

Given that's one of the main suggestions in this thread, yes, completely.

[De-Legro]

Given that's one of the main suggestions in this thread, yes, completely.

I think its quite clear that Tom is against it. The original proposal was more to do with giving the Banker a personal pool of food to draw on for emergency situations and small scale transfers, or at least that is how I read it. Given Tom's feedback I think the proposal will probably need to drop any idea of a food tax to have a hope of consideration. That leaves a Royal Granary that the banker can buy food for and sell to those that need it. Given that in another thread Tom has stated he didn't want bankers to get defacto trader abilities even that seems unlikely.