Author Topic: Barca  (Read 90121 times)

Perth

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Re: Barca
« Reply #30: March 30, 2011, 09:46:52 AM »
Yeah.

You try marching a medieval army through this:




Oh, and throw in some monsters or undead.
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Peri

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Re: Barca
« Reply #31: March 30, 2011, 10:07:57 AM »
A "strategic" secession is against the rules? Like, Fontan-SoA? Or something different? Kind of curious now, as conquest and secession of duchies (or at a minimum a CTO) is almost necessary to make progress in some wars, particularly when it's an already large realm doing the conquering. DoA on EC springs to mind, though I'm not sure if that was secession or a CTO. Not that it makes a difference in my mind, the purpose is the same either way if you ask me.

I think the rule is a bit blurry. If you secede because your realm is just too big to be handled, or because you have no desire to keep the new land, like the secession of westmoor from Perdan, then it is fine. If you secede to enhance the effectiveness at destroying an enemy realm, it shouldn't be allowed. Fontan/SoA was a bit of both, as Fontan clearly understood without a secession they wouldn't have been able to take OR lands, and also because Fontan was simply becoming too big.

As a rule of thumb I believe it's always better to secede or colonize after the war that gave you the land, like Ibby and Doa, rather than during it, as Fontan/Soa.

However I'm afraid this is off topic maybe someone can move the posts to a new topic somewhere else more appropriate? I think it's an interesting argument to make some clarity on. 8)

De-Legro

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Re: Barca
« Reply #32: March 30, 2011, 10:23:08 AM »
From the wiki

*Strategic secessions are prohibited. This means creating a new realm, through secession, in order to circumvent recruiting-in-capital-only restriction. Friendly secessions are okay.

*Strategic capital moves are prohibited. This means moving one's capital for the purpose of closer refitting times in a war. Moving a capital to a central region of the realm or for roleplay reasons (historical, realm named based on capital name, removing a rival duke's power base, keeping a rival duke close by to be watched etc.) are acceptable.

If we take the example given to be the only definition of "Strategic" secession it makes things slightly clearer. The rule would appear to be there to stop people trying to get around the capital movement rule by "secession". It does become blured when you are creating a new realm in the lands of your still kicking enemy, but personally I would think that as long as the new realm and the old stayed separate, and there wasn't a mass movement of nobles and lands to the new realm to such that it becomes the dominate force of the two, it isn't "strategic"
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Galvez

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Re: Barca
« Reply #33: March 30, 2011, 06:29:30 PM »
Fontan/SoA was a bit of both, as Fontan clearly understood without a secession they wouldn't have been able to take OR lands, and also because Fontan was simply becoming too big.
Interesting story.. The war islands were 'sinking', and a large group from Tasalak went to Fontan. At that time, Fontan already had more than 100 characters and was at its largest. Kazakh was succeeded for the large population of new nobles. And to the frustration of many others who did not agreed with the time of government or the fact that the whole government was already formed behind closed doors. But it was certainly not for the purpose of circumventing game rules.

-------

Back on-topic.. Perth, I do not think the Marwood is that colourful.  ;D  Laying next to the barren lands of the Zuma.. But who knows. ^^
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Peri

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Re: Barca
« Reply #34: March 30, 2011, 09:42:34 PM »
Interesting story.. The war islands were 'sinking', and a large group from Tasalak went to Fontan. At that time, Fontan already had more than 100 characters and was at its largest. Kazakh was succeeded for the large population of new nobles. And to the frustration of many others who did not agreed with the time of government or the fact that the whole government was already formed behind closed doors. But it was certainly not for the purpose of circumventing game rules.

You know, I fully agree with this. I never said there was an intentional attempt to circumvent mechanics, but still the secession give an incredible strategic advantage to Fontan. It's very similar to capital moves: regardless of your true intentions if you move it in a way that would bring you a lot of advantage it's often frowned upon. No idea what's the politics of the titans about that, Morek could have been punished for moving the capital to Muspelheim recently for instance.

vonGenf

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Re: Barca
« Reply #35: March 30, 2011, 10:36:08 PM »
Morek could have been punished for moving the capital to Muspelheim recently for instance.

It was not moved during a war, that could have caused trouble. If you forbid moving capitals in case of eventual wars, you might as well forbid capital moves period.
After all it's a roleplaying game.

Galvez

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Re: Barca
« Reply #36: March 30, 2011, 10:46:22 PM »
We'll see what that move does to their southern front. A long journey to defend yourself against monsters, not to mention the dissidents amongst the peasants who will complain about the distance of the capital.
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Peri

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Re: Barca
« Reply #37: March 30, 2011, 10:55:28 PM »
It was not moved during a war, that could have caused trouble. If you forbid moving capitals in case of eventual wars, you might as well forbid capital moves period.

I waited the end of the war against Thulsoma, but we were at war with Averoth when the move was done.

Gloria

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Re: Barca
« Reply #38: March 31, 2011, 09:58:09 PM »
I'm just trying to play out my role as the worst reputable member around here  ::)

Lol.  Soon I'll steal that role from you, and you will no longer be special!

Gloria

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Re: Barca
« Reply #39: March 31, 2011, 10:01:44 PM »
But they are my peasants, they work my land, they shouldn't be able to go and work for my hated enemies!  :o

I need peasants in Rettleville.  What am I going to feed to the monsters when they come?  Wait, no... that's not what I meant.

DoctorHarte

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Re: Barca
« Reply #40: March 31, 2011, 11:54:13 PM »
Lol.  Soon I'll steal that role from you, and you will no longer be special!

It's on! But can't we just be friends? :( I lonely down here.. and I think some people just give me bad rep everytime they see my post, ignoring if it was a nice comment  ???
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Gloria

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Re: Barca
« Reply #41: April 01, 2011, 12:15:12 AM »
It's on! But can't we just be friends? :( I lonely down here.. and I think some people just give me bad rep everytime they see my post, ignoring if it was a nice comment  ???

*Huggles*

Make it a nice comment about Barca and stop hijacking the thread. 

You'd think we're mega-trolls or something.

DoctorHarte

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Re: Barca
« Reply #42: April 01, 2011, 12:22:16 AM »
Maybe you look like Trolls in Barca, but we are civilized in Caerwyn! *Guffaws*  8)  ::)
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Shizzle

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Re: Barca
« Reply #43: April 01, 2011, 12:35:08 AM »
What would be the purpose of getting closer to Madina if the vehicle is such an instable realm? Even Madina would just crush you if you gotwithin reach :)

Skyndarbau is ever dreaming of re-colonising Shinnen :)

Nathan

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Re: Barca
« Reply #44: April 01, 2011, 12:53:34 AM »
Don't be silly... Half of Madina would crush you, the other half would want to trade with you! :D