Author Topic: Derailed thread  (Read 31726 times)

Ehndras

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Re: Derailed thread
« Reply #15: August 23, 2012, 04:55:31 AM »
HAHAHAH!

Indeed. They all have their heads up their asses but good luck informing them without being lynched. Meh, let fools believe what they wish.

Me, I'll go on respecting the divine energy of creation and the beauty of the universe and my made-up pantheon of gods designed from Human traits that I use for philosophical purposes, lol. Much simpler that way.

When people stop appreciating life and start clinging to dogma, that's when you get trouble. I've had personally reasonable conversations with Christians, Muslims, pagans, Buddhists, Atheists, and all manner of in-betweens as an individual who's pretty much an Atheist with neo-pagan leanings. If all parties respect each other and go into the discussion for the sake of learning, fully aware no one's beliefs are in question and no one is trying to convert the other, then all you get is a pleasant conversation with another person. :)
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Zakilevo

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Re: Derailed thread
« Reply #16: August 23, 2012, 05:21:00 AM »
Wow... I wonder who is considered to be the craziest among the crazies. ;)

Vellos

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Re: Derailed thread
« Reply #17: August 23, 2012, 06:14:33 AM »
HAHAHAH!

Indeed. They all have their heads up their asses but good luck informing them without being lynched. Meh, let fools believe what they wish.

...

If all parties respect each other and go into the discussion for the sake of learning, fully aware no one's beliefs are in question and no one is trying to convert the other, then all you get is a pleasant conversation with another person. :)

Errr.... eh?
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Uzamaki

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Re: Derailed thread
« Reply #18: August 23, 2012, 06:39:22 AM »
Errr.... eh?

I too am confused. I mean, I am usually confused by the time Ehndras ends his forever long posts, but now I am especially confused.

Ehndras

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Re: Derailed thread
« Reply #19: August 23, 2012, 07:52:58 AM »
Zaki commented about being the craziest among the crazies. I said They all have their heads equally up their asses.

Case closed?
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Perth

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Re: Derailed thread
« Reply #20: August 23, 2012, 08:12:03 AM »
This topic derailed sooooo fast!

"A tale is but half told when only one person tells it." - The Saga of Grettir the Strong
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Tom

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Re: Derailed thread
« Reply #21: August 23, 2012, 09:04:12 AM »
In my friend's opinion, Flat Earthers are crackpot pseudo-scientists. The Flat-Earthers, in my e-mail exchanges with them, reject those labels, and will cite a respected study endorsing their opinion: from 1650. Respected by discredited persons.

Heresy! I'm a proud member of the Flat Earth Society. Apparently, someone forgot to tell all the people who've joined lately that the whole thing is supposed to be sarcasm aimed at other pseudo-sciences...

Vellos

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Re: Derailed thread
« Reply #22: August 23, 2012, 08:47:27 PM »
Heresy! I'm a proud member of the Flat Earth Society. Apparently, someone forgot to tell all the people who've joined lately that the whole thing is supposed to be sarcasm aimed at other pseudo-sciences...

The current leaders of FES may be parodying... maybe. I know Johnson wasn't. And many people take them seriously; real flat-earthers exist, and sincerely so: I know some.

Flat-Earthers didn't originate as sarcasm.

Zaki commented about being the craziest among the crazies. I said They all have their heads equally up their asses.

Case closed?

Which you followed by talking about a need for mutual respect... which you had just contradicted by your own words.
"A neutral humanism is either a pedantic artifice or a prologue to the inhuman." - George Steiner

Ehndras

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Re: Derailed thread
« Reply #23: August 23, 2012, 09:55:03 PM »
@Vellos

I mutually respect all people, even if they cling to outdated views that were disproved 500 years ago. My brain tells me they're complete and utter nutjobs (to put it lightly) while my upbringing tells me that even though I think they're a waste of genetic material they're just as worthy of respect and a place in this world as anyone else. There is a big difference between being intolerant toward blatant stupidity and adhering to the belief that all human beings are equal in their right to behave and believe in the manner they most feel comfortable. These are not mutually-exclusive. I respect those I dislike, those I don't agree with, and I even respect those who I utterly despise who have done unspeakable things to myself or my family. I shook the hand of the man who abused my mother and ruined her life 20 years ago despite wanting to pull out the weapon I carry and splatter him all over the pavement. Why, you ask? Because of something reasonable human beings have - the knowledge and belief that ALL individuals are worthy of at least a base level of respect - this does not mean my opinion is null and void. It simply means I will put aside my opinion for the sake of humanity and what I believe is right.

People can have differing opinions you know. Life is much more complex than black and white, good and evil, yes and no, and I am one individual who always looks at multiple sides of an argument or idea. EVERYONE's opinions differ from what they actually tell others - I'm just blatantly straight-forward and will tell you my exact thought process whereas others will give you the chewed-up bull!@#$ answer that came after the fact. *shrug* I feel its important to know *why* someone came to a decision, not just what the decision itself is.

If someone says "So-and-so is bat!@#$ crazy." Even though I might agree, I want to know why. If someone says, "So-and-so is a wonderful person." I want to know why. If someone tells me about some random bit of interesting technology (Did you know there's an American research company that's working on the technology necessary and specifically aimed at created a plasma cannon? Blew my mind when I found out, but sadly they're decades away from any meaningful results, so... No plasma cannon within this century.), I will spend hours researching how its manufactured all the way to what its supposed to do.  Nothing to me is ever a yes or a no, a black or a white, a red or a blue. Nothing in life is that simple. Nothing is an absolute truth, and there is always more to it than meets the eye. It'd be wonderful if I could be naive enough to see life through such a simplistic worldview but I've seen, done, and been through enough crazy to know nothing is ever as it appears.

I am sorry that my opinions, views, actions, and decisions aren't being chewed up into an easily-digestible form for the public audience to enjoy. I see nothing controversial about having an opinion and then rebuking it for moral reasons - its called being a human being with various opinions and, oh my, a personal code of morality and honor that not even personal opinion can go against.

So yes, as it stands, I think (serious)Flat-Earthers and those who cling heavily to centuries-old disproved dogma are not only idiots but a waste of genetic material in the form of either individuals of such low-intellect or cultural bombardment in the face of vast ignorance that they're tainting the general order of thought, civilization, and society. This doesn't mean I would treat them in such a way, it doesn't mean I want them to be killed, harassed, demeaned, or mistreated in any way, it doesn't mean I would deny them the same rights as any other American or human being, it doesn't mean I wouldn't be their friends, it doesn't mean I wouldn't work with them, it just means that by the virtue of their beliefs having been disproved, its a fact that they are ignorantly clinging to something that is untrue on the basis of cultural value or faith and, while I personally feel that is as ridiculously idiotic as a human being can possibly be, I respect their right to choose, their right to believe, their right to be as they are, because they are human beings just as I am. We share the flesh and blood of our ancestors, the languages and cultures of our neighbors, and are stuck on a random planet together. The least we could do is learn to 'agree to disagree' and just go on our merry way with our lives.
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Indirik

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Re: Derailed thread
« Reply #24: August 23, 2012, 10:07:13 PM »
Man.... srsly.... you need a one-line tl;dr on these posts...
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Ehndras

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Re: Derailed thread
« Reply #25: August 23, 2012, 10:08:03 PM »
TLDR:

People are dumbasses but I respect them anyway.
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Vellos

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Re: Derailed thread
« Reply #26: August 24, 2012, 12:56:23 AM »
stuff

I'm not sure where the determined rant against Manichaeistic worldviews came from; I'm unclear on its relevance.

I'm just going to reiterate that when you call a person a "waste of genetic material," and any of the other insults you heaped on, you're not respecting them. Period. No matter what you say about not intervening in their life, you're definitely disrespecting them.
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Ehndras

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Re: Derailed thread
« Reply #27: August 24, 2012, 01:21:32 AM »
(TLDR version at bottom)

It is my right to dislike something that is completely and vehemently opposite to logic, reason, or common sense, or is abhorrent in its own right by virtue of its disrespect to others. Someone who demonizes others religious or scientifically-held beliefs because they're adamantly convinced the world is flat or revolves around the sun or some bloody bull is, to me, a flaming !@#$%^& and a waste of space who is giving nothing to society but a headache. For example, certain members of society, including a few in my Brazilian family, who beat and berate their children for believing what they're taught in Science class in school. This is not healthy, mature, human behavior to me - this is sick, abusive, ignorant, and the anti-thesis to civilization, culture, and society. I've seen churchgoers actually throw rocks at passersby who rejected their faith. The !@#$ is this? What are we in, 200 AD?

By all means, act and believe as you wish but keep it to yourself. I hold many opinions and beliefs that other folks won't agree with but I don't go around banding into societies and proselytizing about my beliefs to others. Frankly, what I do in my private life is no one's damn business, neither is it my business what others do or believe.

Believe what you will, but keep it to yourself. If I decided to go around trying to convince everyone to worship the universe and reject their faiths I'd be just as much of an !@#$%^& as them.

For example, I come from a Christian family. I respect Christian dogma and views, but wholeheartedly reject what some Christian's uphold as a perceived monopoly on morality - something that has existed long before Christianity and exists independently of Christianity. I have no problem with Christianity, I go to church with my Christian friends when I feel like it, I know the bible better than many Christians, and I find certain aspects of Christianity to be beautiful.

BUT, the moment someone of any faith starts dogging others who don't share their beliefs, start disrespecting, demonizing, and treating people differently because of what they believe - to me they are as a lethal infection that threatens the fabric of morality and society and must be purged. Perhaps I have a pretty dystopian view of things, coming from a region replete with corruption, violent police, politicking, rampant crime, racial wars, and all sorts of chaos, but I stand by my view that if you're doing everything in your power to make innocent peoples' lives a living hell, like the Westboro folk, you're a piece of !@#$ and don't deserve the air you breathe. End of story.

TLDR;

I find it a bit difficult to have the whole "The world is wonderful, fluffy fluffy innocent perfection" mindset, despite trying my hardest to be a kind, fair, and honest person. (and being disrespected for it, to boot!) I've been to various countries, witnessed multiple cultures, and am the product of a hilarious culture/socio-economic clash of my own. What I've learned is simple: everyone is different. Everyone believes and acts differently. I believe everyone has the right to live as they wish, believe as they wish, and do as they wish - within law and reason. The SECOND someone starts demonizing the rights and beliefs of others, they become a cancerous sore on the fabric of morality and society and are only ruining the lives of innocents with their abuse.

By all means, speak your mind - but if, for example, you say you hate blacks, gays, jews, atheists, Buddhists, or demonize someone's beliefs, you'd better be prepared for all hell to break loose because if you open your mouth and pollute the airways with your bigotry then by god are you going to suffer for it.

The only people in this world I hate are stupid, ignorant people who can't seem to grasp the basic precepts of respecting your fellow man - and sadly the world is full of them. If everyone would mind their own damn business and just live their lives then everyone would be much better.
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Ehndras

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Re: Derailed thread
« Reply #28: August 24, 2012, 01:22:06 AM »
Now then, is there a point to all this or are we just going to keep on discussing stupid people in their many incarnations?
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Anaris

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Re: Derailed thread
« Reply #29: August 24, 2012, 01:22:41 AM »
TL;DR version of this whole thread:

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/religion
Timothy Collett

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