Author Topic: There are rich pirates in D'Hara  (Read 40030 times)

vonGenf

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Re: There are rich pirates in D'Hara
« Reply #30: September 07, 2012, 04:13:11 PM »
On topic. Religions need nobles to survive and to expand. That hasn't changed since I started playing and I doubt it ever will. Priests do not need to carry thousands or even hundreds of gold on their person. They have no reason to and while others might think its a good idea, considering that you've got that handy "Arrest Priest" option in certain cases, and Judges can liberate prisoner's gold purses, pirates and bandits are hardly the only reason why its not always a good idea. Hundreds or thousands of gold, and no guards.

On topic. Realms need nobles to survive and to expand. That hasn't changed since I started playing and I doubt it ever will. Warriors do not need to carry thousands or even hundreds of gold on their person. They have no reason to and while others might think its a good idea, considering that they can be captured in battle, and Judges can liberate prisoner's gold purses, pirates and bandits are hardly the only reason why its not always a good idea. Hundreds or thousands of gold, and no guards.

Should I do the same for courtiers now?

"You don't need it if you play like I do" is not an argument for "You shouldn't". You don't know why my character has gold, wants gold, needs gold, and it's none of your concern. Maybe you like to play a certain of priests, and that's fine, but diversity of characters is good for the game, not bad.

Sorry if I come out a bit strong on this, I should add that I don't mind that much the pirates. I was surprised that it could happen (and with good reason, since it seems it's new), but if the probability is small enough it's an acceptable risk. What I hate with a passion, though, is the "priests don't need gold" argument.
After all it's a roleplaying game.

egamma

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Re: There are rich pirates in D'Hara
« Reply #31: September 07, 2012, 04:38:07 PM »
What I hate with a passion, though, is the "priests don't need gold" argument.

How about the "priests don't need to carry more than 500 gold" argument?

vonGenf

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Re: There are rich pirates in D'Hara
« Reply #32: September 07, 2012, 04:46:48 PM »
How about the "priests don't need to carry more than 500 gold" argument?

OK. Let me start:

Traders don't need troops.

Infils don't need bonds.

Lords don't need more than 500 CS of troops.

Rulers don't need to travel at the same speed as others.

Courtiers don't need estates.

etc, etc. I can go on like this forever. Whatever the question you are looking at, it remains a bad argument. I don't care how much gold you think I need.
After all it's a roleplaying game.

D'Espana

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Re: There are rich pirates in D'Hara
« Reply #33: September 07, 2012, 04:50:04 PM »
My good sir, didn't you know already that in D'Hara everyone and his dog are rich? I've seen bandits sleeping in better manors and dressing more expensive outfits than a region lord, believe me! Yeah, everyone is rich... except for myself *sob*

Meh, now on topic. I see that perhaps it would be good some sort of a special-bodyguard-only unit. Much like guild guards or the sort. Wanna take the risk? Don't pick them. Wanna spend part of the money you would never spend otherwise because you are a fat priest too much rich for your current life? Then go and recruit some guards! And perhaps some whores too. You know, for divine purposes and all that. Amen.
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Anaris

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Re: There are rich pirates in D'Hara
« Reply #34: September 07, 2012, 04:53:47 PM »
OK. Let me start:

Traders don't need troops.

Infils don't need bonds.

Lords don't need more than 500 CS of troops.

Rulers don't need to travel at the same speed as others.

Courtiers don't need estates.

etc, etc. I can go on like this forever. Whatever the question you are looking at, it remains a bad argument. I don't care how much gold you think I need.

Which is all very well, but it happens to be true that there's very little for a priest to do with gold except put it in a temple (or guildhouse) or give it to someone else. Any other noble class has troops and paraphernalia, which need pay on a regular basis.

Thus, 99.9% of the time, priests are not expected to be carrying massive amounts of money around.

Furthermore, the fact that this incident is so noteworthy should tell you that it's not exactly a common thing for you to get attacked...and if you make a habit of carrying around thousands and thousands of gold, you should already know that it's not even common for that circumstance.

No one, so far as I can tell, is calling for it to be more common for bandits to attack you and steal your gold. But I haven't yet seen anything that suggests that it should be less common, either.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

vonGenf

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Re: There are rich pirates in D'Hara
« Reply #35: September 07, 2012, 04:55:45 PM »
And perhaps some whores too. You know, for divine purposes and all that. Amen.

What happens in Madina stays in Madina.  ;)
After all it's a roleplaying game.

Carna

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Re: There are rich pirates in D'Hara
« Reply #36: September 07, 2012, 04:58:27 PM »
My point was need. A Priest may want to for whatever reasons, but I'm fairly certain that there's nothing they NEED thousands of gold on hand for. Hate it all you want, though I do agree that seems a bit strong, but can you give me a 'for instance'? You didn't in your post and I was/am pulling blanks. I'll happily concede the point (what's it to me?), but not on the basis that other classes and play-styles don't need hundreds or thousands of gold on hand either because we're talking about Priests, not other classes. Sticking with Priests then, I'll stick to the fact that nothing they do requires them to do laps of their continent with more money than Gold (or whatever deity it is they follow).

Here's the disclaimer: Priests may not need thousands of gold on them, but if a Priest is fantastically rich and wants to carry all or some of that wealth with him, that's the Priest's choice. They may not need to, but I'm hardly saying they shouldn't be able to if for whatever reason. Sure there's a question of bravery or stupidity, but that's more for IC imo.

Finton.

vonGenf

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Re: There are rich pirates in D'Hara
« Reply #37: September 07, 2012, 04:59:02 PM »
Thus, 99.9% of the time, priests are not expected to be carrying massive amounts of money around.

If I did what was expected 99.9% of the time, I could be replaced by a script. We're not playing tic-tac-toe, are we?

Furthermore, the fact that this incident is so noteworthy should tell you that it's not exactly a common thing for you to get attacked...and if you make a habit of carrying around thousands and thousands of gold, you should already know that it's not even common for that circumstance.

No one, so far as I can tell, is calling for it to be more common for bandits to attack you and steal your gold. But I haven't yet seen anything that suggests that it should be less common, either.

As I said, I don't really mind the pirates. I can't say it's fun, but I understand their purpose. I sure hope their purpose is not to restrict priests' gameplay just for the sake of it though.
After all it's a roleplaying game.

Geronus

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Re: There are rich pirates in D'Hara
« Reply #38: September 07, 2012, 04:59:46 PM »
Which is all very well, but it happens to be true that there's very little for a priest to do with gold except put it in a temple (or guildhouse) or give it to someone else. Any other noble class has troops and paraphernalia, which need pay on a regular basis.

Thus, 99.9% of the time, priests are not expected to be carrying massive amounts of money around.

Furthermore, the fact that this incident is so noteworthy should tell you that it's not exactly a common thing for you to get attacked...and if you make a habit of carrying around thousands and thousands of gold, you should already know that it's not even common for that circumstance.

No one, so far as I can tell, is calling for it to be more common for bandits to attack you and steal your gold. But I haven't yet seen anything that suggests that it should be less common, either.

Once again, you're completely ignoring the Diplomat subclass. You know, the one whose abilities are almost completely driven by gold? The one that most priests take as a matter of course because it's the only subclass worth taking for a priest? Yeah, that one.

vonGenf

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Re: There are rich pirates in D'Hara
« Reply #39: September 07, 2012, 05:03:09 PM »
My point was need. A Priest may want to for whatever reasons, but I'm fairly certain that there's nothing they NEED thousands of gold on hand for. Hate it all you want, though I do agree that seems a bit strong, but can you give me a 'for instance'? You didn't in your post and I was/am pulling blanks. I'll happily concede the point (what's it to me?), but not on the basis that other classes and play-styles don't need hundreds or thousands of gold on hand either because we're talking about Priests, not other classes. Sticking with Priests then, I'll stick to the fact that nothing they do requires them to do laps of their continent with more money than Gold (or whatever deity it is they follow).

I like to carry 5'000 gold because, on the right occasion, you can buy people with that kind of money. Sometimes, whole realms. Is that good enough for you?

And I maintain my point. No one needs gold. Everyone wants gold, priests or not.
After all it's a roleplaying game.

Anaris

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Re: There are rich pirates in D'Hara
« Reply #40: September 07, 2012, 05:05:00 PM »
If I did what was expected 99.9% of the time, I could be replaced by a script. We're not playing tic-tac-toe, are we?

That's horribly reductionist. Just because our behaviour excludes certain things 99.9% of the time, that doesn't mean that it is perfectly predictable.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Indirik

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Re: There are rich pirates in D'Hara
« Reply #41: September 07, 2012, 05:05:43 PM »
Furthermore, the fact that this incident is so noteworthy should tell you that it's not exactly a common thing for you to get attacked...and if you make a habit of carrying around thousands and thousands of gold, you should already know that it's not even common for that circumstance.
Brance has been carrying around ~9,000 gold for months and months now, and has never been attacked. I've never bothered converting it into bonds after taxes.
If at first you don't succeed, don't take up skydiving.

Anaris

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Re: There are rich pirates in D'Hara
« Reply #42: September 07, 2012, 05:07:03 PM »
Once again, you're completely ignoring the Diplomat subclass. You know, the one whose abilities are almost completely driven by gold? The one that most priests take as a matter of course because it's the only subclass worth taking for a priest? Yeah, that one.

And if you're away from home for a month as a diplomat, using your diplomat abilities every single turn, you will use up a whopping 300 gold.

Not thousands.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Geronus

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Re: There are rich pirates in D'Hara
« Reply #43: September 07, 2012, 05:07:46 PM »
Brance has been carrying around ~9,000 gold for months and months now, and has never been attacked. I've never bothered converting it into bonds after taxes.

Considering what just happened to Von Genf, I would probably take some steps to fix that... It would really suck for Astrum if you lost 9,000 gold.

Carna

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Re: There are rich pirates in D'Hara
« Reply #44: September 07, 2012, 05:17:40 PM »
I like to carry 5'000 gold because, on the right occasion, you can buy people with that kind of money. Sometimes, whole realms. Is that good enough for you?

And I maintain my point. No one needs gold. Everyone wants gold, priests or not.

Yep. I've bought and paid for plenty of support. Its part of why I enjoy playing Republics. Get Duke. Bankroll whatever election you want. Not necessarily gain power, but gain major influence over your country. For me, that's a fairly good example. Bonds don't transfer realms, gold does in at least three ways that I've thought of off the top of my head.

Not so agreeing on the Diplomats, since they don't require hundreds, let alone thousands, of gold on person unless you're doing a Hireshmont-style tour of the continent. At least in my experience. Doubt expenses have spiked while I've been gone.

So yes, Priests might need hundreds or thousands of gold on hand, and not strictly for a predefined purpose. Having it handy, so to speak. That's if you're involved at that level, but if you have that much coin with you, you probably are.

Thanks for pointing that out, vonGenf. I wasn't advocating that Priests should have a limit on their cash-at-hand, nor trying to make an argument for more regular bandit/pirate attacks but I genuinely could not think of a suitable reason why you'd want to, let alone need to, have that much in gold instead of bonds or in the temple treasuries. Alternatively, I don't think a one in a hundred chance (picked a number out of the sky, obviously) or whatever it is negatively impacts Priests more than anyone else. If Priests face this, then warriors/courtiers without troops probably do too.

Anywho, yah, interesting discussion.

Finton.

Finton.