Speed up region recovery rate

[Anaris]

There have been PLENTY of wars since that mechanic was removed.

I didn't say that there hadn't.

Indeed, many places saw a rise.

I think all that can be said for certain is that some realms, relieved of the burden of the badly-designed TMP penalties, were suddenly able to start wars they had been wanting to start. That is, I would call it a surge of wars (short-term), not a rise in the number (long-term).

If some !@#$%^& concentrated in one of the many continents don't care for fun, it shouldn't be a reason to go screw everyone else who plays the game. TMP caused a lot more harm than it did good, I'm quite glad it's gone.

I agree with this, as I think I've made clear before. I just think we need something to replace it as an incentive to war—nothing so heavy-handed, of course, and maybe some adjustments to region recovery should be part of it. But the problem of risk-averse rulers preventing wars because they're afraid of losing what they have is a real one.

[Tom]

I have slightly increased population growth, especially for regions that are heavily depopulated. Don't expect too much, it's not like doubled, but it should be a bit faster now to get out of heavy damage. Not too fast, or else the one causing the damage will feel like it's not worth it.

[Bedwyr]

What about an honour/prestige based solution?

Instead of region recovery taking forever, create honour/prestige losses for lords/dukes/rulers when their regions get hurt?  And for every point of prestige lost, maybe the Ruler/General/whomever of all realms at war with that realm have a chance of prestige gains?

[Zakilevo]

What about an honour/prestige based solution?

Instead of region recovery taking forever, create honour/prestige losses for lords/dukes/rulers when their regions get hurt?  And for every point of prestige lost, maybe the Ruler/General/whomever of all realms at war with that realm have a chance of prestige gains?

That sounds like a decent solution actually. Ever since population started to hurt production, things became less fun... more unnecessary micromanagement....

[vonGenf]

I think you'll find that doesn't work and is certainly not fun game-play. When no one makes gold, there are no wars.

There is always gold. You may receive 50 gold a week today, and expect to receive 80 gold a week in three months - or a city may support 4 knights now, and 12 down the road. But there is always gold.

To be honest the game has not been the same since peasant numbers started affecting production. It has done nothing but add months of wait for regions to recover and that has done nothing but lead to less wars due to fears of the destruction it causes.

When was that, a century ago? I don't remember that ever being the case, and I've been playing for quite some time.

[Tom]

There are a lot of nifty details in this game that most players don't know about. One of them is that looting is one of the few ways to actually create gold. That's because only half of what you loot is taken from that tax store, the other half is taken from the peasants - gold that the realm owning the region would not collect through taxes.

[Indirik]

How long have you been playing, Zakilevo? two years? Three? There's no way you could possibly remember a time before production and population were tied together. That happened before I started playing almost 7 years ago, now.

We've had plenty of damn good wars since then.

[Chenier]

What about an honour/prestige based solution?

Instead of region recovery taking forever, create honour/prestige losses for lords/dukes/rulers when their regions get hurt?  And for every point of prestige lost, maybe the Ruler/General/whomever of all realms at war with that realm have a chance of prestige gains?

I don't see how this fixes anything. If you bash on a realm in order to be able to take on a stronger foe after, the first target would still be able to strike right back after their defeat regardless of their honor and prestige loss, if recovery is too rapid.

It also means that strong realms can go bully and devastate smaller realms' nobles' H/P. I really don't see how that would be fun for the invaded realm's players.

[Chenier]

There are a lot of nifty details in this game that most players don't know about. One of them is that looting is one of the few ways to actually create gold. That's because only half of what you loot is taken from that tax store, the other half is taken from the peasants - gold that the realm owning the region would not collect through taxes.

But it also lowers production.

[Zakilevo]

How long have you been playing, Zakilevo? two years? Three? There's no way you could possibly remember a time before production and population were tied together. That happened before I started playing almost 7 years ago, now.

We've had plenty of damn good wars since then.

I've been playing since early 2006. Maybe I am confused with the time when we had more players and I only played on Atamara so I do not know much about other continents.

[Indirik]

I could have sworn that you were a relatively newer player.

Anyway, back then, a couple regions getting destroyed didn't hurt a realm too much, as taxes were collected and distributed realm-wide. Things all around could be more centrally managed, so it was done more efficiently by the people that wanted to deal with it, and not done half-assed by people that don't want to be hassled with it.

[Zakilevo]

I could have sworn that you were a relatively newer player.

Anyway, back then, a couple regions getting destroyed didn't hurt a realm too much, as taxes were collected and distributed realm-wide. Things all around could be more centrally managed, so it was done more efficiently by the people that wanted to deal with it, and not done half-assed by people that don't want to be hassled with it.

Probably because I never bothered to be anything else than a knight until I started the current one. Back then it was impossible for me to get anywhere near any positions... but the game was a lot more fun.

[D`Este]

I'm curious, what are realms more often, at war or at peace?

[Bedwyr]

I don't see how this fixes anything. If you bash on a realm in order to be able to take on a stronger foe after, the first target would still be able to strike right back after their defeat regardless of their honor and prestige loss, if recovery is too rapid.

No one, myself included, is proposing that you wouldn't be able to knock someone out of a war.  People don't like that it can take several RL months to recover the population of a devastated city.  I would think that knocking a realm out of effective production for three to six months would be more than sufficient.

It also means that strong realms can go bully and devastate smaller realms' nobles' H/P. I really don't see how that would be fun for the invaded realm's players.

I would counter this with two arguments:

1. Bigger realms should win against smaller realms, all else being equal.  If you're fighting a war with someone twice your size, with no off-setting advantages, then you should lose.

2. Maybe people would actually agree to something approaching reasonable peace terms if they personally were facing H/P losses.

[Chenier]

No one, myself included, is proposing that you wouldn't be able to knock someone out of a war.  People don't like that it can take several RL months to recover the population of a devastated city.  I would think that knocking a realm out of effective production for three to six months would be more than sufficient.

Wars take months to wage. Many, many months. And the only kind of damage I have really seen do the devastation some complain about is realm-wide starvation. And even that was nerfed since. A heavily-looted realm might take a while to re-obtain maximum production, sure, but that also doesn't mean it's unable to fight in any conflict. It's too easy to blame everything else than the players choosing not to go to war themselves.

I would counter this with two arguments:

1. Bigger realms should win against smaller realms, all else being equal.  If you're fighting a war with someone twice your size, with no off-setting advantages, then you should lose.

2. Maybe people would actually agree to something approaching reasonable peace terms if they personally were facing H/P losses.

1. Sure they should win. Doesn't mean they should be able to completely crush the other realms' characters' personal stats. It's outright griefing.

2. Define "reasonable". I suspect that winning realms would make much greater demands if they knew that continued war meant personal damage to the other nobles. And while production can be restored in many ways, h/p can't, and since recruitment is tied to these stats, it's even less reparable damage than what we currently have.

Lords already take h/p hits when their regions are lost. I don't think that this path would be a good one to pursue if we keep fun in mind.