Ruler become lord of new region.

[D'Espana]

You dukes have really wicked minds. That's the reason, I guess 

[fodder]

Except... that we elect our lords, the dukes normally don't appoint them.

Making your whole logic rather moot.

But as it is, I don't believe we can elect the ruler as lord without some !@#$ up happening.

but the dukes have power to appoint, that isn't stripped away just because there's an election. (still a bit weird... )

as for imperial duchies.... there was a thread about something along these lines... but it was decided for everything to stay as is.

[Chenier]

but the dukes have power to appoint, that isn't stripped away just because there's an election. (still a bit weird... )

as for imperial duchies.... there was a thread about something along these lines... but it was decided for everything to stay as is.

Sure, they could still appoint someone before the ruler gets elected.

But that the ruler can't get elected without the system cock-blocking him makes no sense and is quite aggravating.

Unless the cock-block only happens at turn change after the elections, and the ruler can declare himself duke in-between? A 1-turn window would still be unfair to the player, imo, but at least there would be some possibility without forcing the use of placeholder dukes. Because seriously, we've always been against placeholders but the way this new auto-"correct" works forces rulers to use one.

[fodder]

of course the ruler can be elected (if he can run, then he can be elected). what happens after i'm not certain (because i can't remember if i've seen it before). either he gets auto booted as ruler or as lord i imagine. i would favour default to being the former... because the latter would be a bit pointless.

if it's possible for a ruler to get voted in as lord and make himself duke before autoboot kicks in, then that would be a loop hole. as it bypasses the hierarchy.

as things stand atm, just because a ruler can't make himself lord and duke after doesn't excuse placeholder. it just means they should be more careful in what elections they run in or what positions they hold before grabbing the rulership. (or figure out a way to get rid of a duke and take his place)

it's not all that different from a lord getting elected as ruler and losing lordship.


---
ps.. mechanics wise.. the "easiest" remedy would be to allow dukes to give (empty) regions to another duke and allow rulers to make themselves dukes of empty duchies. but i think that won't happen.

[Indirik]

... allow rulers to make themselves dukes of empty duchies.

I'm fairly certain that if the ruler is not already a duke, and there is an existing duchy that does not have a duke, the ruler can appoint himself as Duke of that duchy.

[fodder]

when i say empty duchy.. i mean empty duchy of 0 region.

[Telrunya]

As far as I know, that is possible. At least the option is there, as long as there is no current Duke of course.

[fodder]

... you are still not getting it. creating a new duchy out of thin air with no region. that is not possible.

the rationale for doing it this way is that you will not bypass any hierarchy... whilst not letting rulers do whatever they want (someone has to give him a region for the duchy to be something other than just a name)

[Foundation]

I believe both of them were talking about already existing duchies or newly made duchies that happen to be without dukes (abdication, stepping down, wounded too long, etc).

[fodder]

um.. the core issue is what happens when a ruler wants to be a lord too... but isn't a duke (or wants to also be a lord+duke when there are no vacant dukeship)

so i'm saying what kind of things can be added to allow that to happen.. with input from someone else other than the ruler only... (without the imperial duchy or auto creation stuff)

vacant duchies is irrelevant (unless the existing duchy is where the vacant region is)... and if the vacant region also has a vacant duke, then there wouldn't even be this thread.

[Tom]

I don't see what the fuss is all about. BM is very intentionally built so that individual characters can very often not do what they please, and need others to cooperate with them, even if they hold the highest offices.

It creates conflict, communication and teamplay.

[Anaris]

I don't see what the fuss is all about. BM is very intentionally built so that individual characters can very often not do what they please, and need others to cooperate with them, even if they hold the highest offices.

It creates conflict, communication and teamplay.

In this case, Tom, if a ruler (Noble A) wishes to become lord of a vacant region, and Duke of a new duchy based in it, the following steps need to take place:

• Duke (Noble B) appoints Noble C as Lord of region
• Ruler elevates Noble C to Duke
• Noble C steps down as Duke and Lord
• Ruler appoints himself as Duke
• Ruler appoints himself as Lord

It's pretty cumbersome, especially the third step there.

[Penchant]

In this case, Tom, if a ruler (Noble A) wishes to become lord of a vacant region, and Duke of a new duchy based in it, the following steps need to take place:

• Duke (Noble B) appoints Noble C as Lord of region
• Ruler elevates Noble C to Duke
• Noble C steps down as Duke and Lord
• Ruler appoints himself as Duke
• Ruler appoints himself as Lord

It's pretty cumbersome, especially the third step there.

And I was told its also not allowed due to that using a placeholder position meaning there is no way for a ruler to become Lord+duke of a new duchy without a lord as they want to be lord.

I don't see what the fuss is all about. BM is very intentionally built so that individual characters can very often not do what they please, and need others to cooperate with them, even if they hold the highest offices.

It creates conflict, communication and teamplay.

The mechanics currently have it where no conflict, communication, or team play will make this work without a placeholder position which is not currently not allowed .

[fodder]

In this case, Tom, if a ruler (Noble A) wishes to become lord of a vacant region, and Duke of a new duchy based in it, the following steps need to take place:

• Duke (Noble B) appoints Noble C as Lord of region
• Ruler elevates Noble C to Duke
• Noble C steps down as Duke and Lord
• Ruler appoints himself as Duke
• Ruler appoints himself as Lord

It's pretty cumbersome, especially the third step there.

or... steps down as ruler, gets appointed as lord.. new ruler makes him duke, boots out ruler and replaces him.

[Chenier]

or... steps down as ruler, gets appointed as lord.. new ruler makes him duke, boots out ruler and replaces him.

Placeholder again.