New Sea Routes

[Chenier]

Are new sea routes going to be added? Rines-Fronepu would be nice...

[Anaris]

Tom has stated that there will be none.

(I wanted some too.  )

[Penchant]

Tom has stated that there will be none.

(I wanted some too.  )

Do you know why?

[Draco Tanos]

I'm a little curious as well.  Just seems strange that we'd not have new sea routes and they wouldn't even phase the realms I'm in.

[Chenier]

The current setup will really suck for the South... There's nowhere for Rio to go other than Enweil, which they could easily crush (and would bring them back to square 1: unable to do anything anymore). As for Enweil, there's nothing they can do, because anything they do risks pissing off Rio, which could easily crush them.

Rio could splinter, but it's so huge that I'd have a hard time seeing any secession being able to successfully fend off the rest of Riombara, lest it be a friendly secession.

Enweil can't really splinter. It would be devastating... We've had the Fheuv'n experience, and we saw how that totally backfired.

And even if one of Rio's western cities split, attacking Creasur (the closest possible target after Enweil) would be grueling, while it would take forever for the farthest cities. For anyone else, they'd need to spend weeks travelling to bypass two realms...

Which means there's no diplomacy possible. Either Rio bores itself with nobody nearby to bully, either it swiftly stomps Enweil and then bores itself with nobody nearby to bully. Even if Enweil managed to get anyone against Rio, there's nothing anyone could do to make the conflict interesting, because of how far back they'd be.

A Rines/Fronepu passage, over the newly formed sea, would at least open up possibilities for Rio to go North, or for the North to go to Rio. And the fact that it's over a new body of water could justify why a route never existed there historically (I'd rather more routes, but that's the only one that makes sense and is balanced, imo).

[Anaris]

Do you know why?

This is what he said:

And no, I won't change the geography for political reasons. Never turns out the way you hoped, and sea routes especially not. See EI.

[Geronus]

EI? The only sea routes there are the ones to and from OI, are they not? I can't really see how those would be expected to make a difference. That whole realm could sink into the sea tomorrow along with the accompanying sea routes and very few people would care.

There's definitely an IG justification for creating a sea route or two, and I do think one would be beneficial at this point. I somewhat agree with Chenier's assessment of the situation in the South, though I think there is a possibility for either Fronen or Nothoi to impact a war between Enweil and Riombara.

[Lefanis]

Are new sea routes going to be added? Rines-Fronepu would be nice...

It would be awesome 

[vonGenf]

And no, I won't change the geography for political reasons.

But in this case, it's not political reasons, it's geographical reasons. The geography of the island really did change. If a new island were drawn like that today, certainly there would be a sea route.

[Tan dSerrai]

Personally I would love to see new sea routes.


Two ideas: a) weaken the strong position Riombara does have. b) enable leapfrogging along the coast.

a) I (a miracle!) agree with Chenier. I would make it even harsher than Fronepu-Rines....for example Fronepu-Ajitmon. This would enable attacks into one direction while keeping the other direction relatively secure. It would be impossible to keep a strong guard in Ajitmon, allowing both raiding and attacks from Fronepu.

b) leapfrogging: right now we have a purely two-dimensional map in regards to travel. To leave (or enter) Riombara you /must/ travel through a long, thin corridor. If travel along the coast would be possible...for example between two rurals, for example in the north: Pella (Thal) to Qonnor (Sint). This way Sint could attack Thalmarkin (or the other way round) without having to march via Old Grehk. Create a ring of sea routes as that and a lot more possibilities open up: Fangor-Watersdown; Aesh-Kraake; Kif-Worvobaen; Eykfar-Shifgregor....and so on, right around the island.

[Anaris]

a) I (a miracle!) agree with Chenier. I would make it even harsher than Fronepu-Rines....for example Fronepu-Ajitmon. This would enable attacks into one direction while keeping the other direction relatively secure. It would be impossible to keep a strong guard in Ajitmon, allowing both raiding and attacks from Fronepu.

Noooo...not mah region!

[Penchant]

Noooo...not mah region!

Nice job Tan, now Anaris doesn't support new sea routes.  *joking*

[Chenier]

There's definitely an IG justification for creating a sea route or two, and I do think one would be beneficial at this point. I somewhat agree with Chenier's assessment of the situation in the South, though I think there is a possibility for either Fronen or Nothoi to impact a war between Enweil and Riombara.

If Rio stays united, Enweil stands no chance. Rio gained a bunch of cities, while Enweil lost Fengen and Enweilieos (Ete will take a really long time to compensate for this). Rio always had a more active and efficient army, now they also have a massive economic superiority to go with it. Even if Nothoi and Fronen and OG and Thalmarkin joined with Enweil against Rio (not gonna happen), the travel times would still mean that Rio could, if they wanted, loot Enweil to death without the others being able to do much about it.

But in this case, it's not political reasons, it's geographical reasons. The geography of the island really did change. If a new island were drawn like that today, certainly there would be a sea route.

Indeed. It's a request that doesn't stem from how the continental politics evolved, but from the greatly deformed continent that has resulted from the last invasion. It's not like people colonized a remote island and now complain it's isolated, the removal of a passage north from the east really changes possibilities, and not in a way that will stimulate fun imo.

Personally I would love to see new sea routes.


Two ideas: a) weaken the strong position Riombara does have. b) enable leapfrogging along the coast.

a) I (a miracle!) agree with Chenier. I would make it even harsher than Fronepu-Rines....for example Fronepu-Ajitmon. This would enable attacks into one direction while keeping the other direction relatively secure. It would be impossible to keep a strong guard in Ajitmon, allowing both raiding and attacks from Fronepu.

b) leapfrogging: right now we have a purely two-dimensional map in regards to travel. To leave (or enter) Riombara you /must/ travel through a long, thin corridor. If travel along the coast would be possible...for example between two rurals, for example in the north: Pella (Thal) to Qonnor (Sint). This way Sint could attack Thalmarkin (or the other way round) without having to march via Old Grehk. Create a ring of sea routes as that and a lot more possibilities open up: Fangor-Watersdown; Aesh-Kraake; Kif-Worvobaen; Eykfar-Shifgregor....and so on, right around the island.

I personally don't see any reason to add sea routes where geography hasn't changed, though. And RP-wise, sea routes make more sense from city to city, imo, at least for long distances.

[Sypher]

If I was to add sea routes to BT I'd add two:

• Iato-Ofengail (Ofengail because it was next to a city and would be a likely place for a port on the west coast)
• Fronepu-Melegra (Melegra because the old bridge to Fwuvoghor could be the new 'port' for boats to land at)
  

Other Possibilities:
Gethsemene-Sandefur-Agyr (A northern sea route opened by the loss of some of the northern regions)
Fronepu-Rines-Grehk
Heen-Iato-Ete City
Athol Margos-Mhed

[Tom]

There will be no new sea routes, period.

Everyone who says this isn't about politics, but about geography, and then goes on to explain which effect it would have on realms is confused about what "geography" means.

The world does not adapt to realms, realms adapt to what the shape of the world looks like.

If you think one realm has an unfair advantage, gang up and wipe them out.