Head of Religion Titles in All Signatures

[Anaris]

eh.. but my point is... what if he doesn't reclaim at all.  why would he need to reclaim if he's the highest rank anyway and doesn't need to add more elder ranks (eg.. he thinks 2 or whatever below him is enough)

it would still open the way for anyone after him to reclaim ranks above. thus the highest rank shown to people outside can theoretically be any 1 of 10 and that's changeable with time, even if the names are set in stone (which they aren't)

If he doesn't reclaim, then he's not the highest rank.

[fodder]

.... highest amongst everyone else present....

[Arundel]

anyway... it's somewhat irrelevant as i was basically saying displaying more than 1 rank title from 1 religion is bad because no one knows what they mean. (someone said show for all elders)

What about having both? So the specific title followed by the universal definition.

For example:

Alice Arundel
Vicar of the Flame of Aetheris Pyrism
Head of Aetheris Pyrism

or

Brantley Unwin
Knight of Shinnen Purlieus
Blaze Guide of Aetheris Pyrism
Elder of Aetheris Pyrism

[fodder]

there are 10 possible elder titles... unless you are listing them out like
<title>, head of <religion>
<title>, number 2 of <religion>
no one will have a clue which elder is more senior, etc.... anyway.. number X of <religion> sounds naff, so something better is needed. the ranks are not explicitly numbered... so you probably won't end up with something like 1,3,6 and missing inbetween.. that would look really odd.

or just stick to one title only..

though you do wonder about messages between elders of different faiths. would the message system be smart enough to figure out messages between different faiths would probably be nice to include ranks meaningfully somehow and omit them when writing to nobles of no significant faiths, for example.

--
either way.. 1 line is better than 2.

--
thing about title inflation is that.. it makes far more sense to have
knight of <estate name>, region X than the other stuff.

[Arundel]

I think as long as we know they're elders, its fine. I disagree that one line is better than two, and that both should be there in order to help clarify the more colorful and meaningful title.

The largest religion in the game, Sanguis Astroism, has 12 elders in total with 9 elder titles encompassing them; or so the wiki states. It'd be safe to assume that most religions don't have that many elders, as I've seen personally in every religion that I've been a part of, and the influx of titles would be rather low.

On the note of too may titles, let me point you to secular titles. Whereas I'm suggesting 2 titles solely for elders, realms can assign a council, duke, lordship, and marshal title all to one noble - even more if one holds more than one council position - making my suggestion hardly cumbersome to what exists already.

[Gustav Kuriga]

If I'm a noble outside of the other religion, it's enough for me to know that the person who signed the letter is an elder. what his position is regarding the other elders is from there can be easily researched by asking.

[Chenier]

I've never liked this whole "what if religions want to be secret cults" thing.  If you want a secret cult, do a secret society.  A religion requires at least one sizable temple.  This is not some little hole in the wall people can scurry to without notice.  This is a large building with staff.  It costs more than some recruitment centers.  And most religions have enough infrastructure in temples and shrines to make them equivalent in total investment to a duchy, and quite a number have as much or more than realms.

I think the religion game should be more public, people should be standing up and having their beliefs known, and religious titles should be given equal weight to secular ones.  The highest of high nobles of a realm joining a religion is not something that could be secret, nor should it be.

I do not know any other religion who sought to be as "secret" as The Blood Cult. And in that case, the only things I wanted secret were things that were, for pretty much everyone, very difficult to learn: member list and temple location. Except those that joined the religion for the sole sake of getting extra info from doing so, which I have always held as an abuse of mechanics.

Even if the Cult was secretive, there was absolutely nothing secret about our elders: the initiation RPs, where they do ritual killings and gain their promotions, was publicly available on our wiki page.

I do not believe "some religions prefer to be secretive" as a valid reason to exclude leader (or elder) titles from signatures.

[Arundel]

So I believe the feature request has come down to the following:

The head (top rank currently filled) and all elders of a religion should have their religious titles signed at the end of every letter. In addition, a simple title that describes whether said previous title belongs to an elder or a head should follow, in order to clarify it to members outside of the religion.

Example:

Alice Arundel
Vicar of the Flame of Aetheris Pyrism
Head of Aetheris Pyrism

or

Brantley Unwin
Knight of Shinnen Purlieus
Blaze Guide of Aetheris Pyrism
Elder of Aetheris Pyrism

In addition, an option - in the form of a checkbox - to sign these titles would be preferred for those who wish to have a choice in publicizing their titles. However, this is a preference and not the absolute focus of this feature request.

[fodder]

.. as i said, 1 line is better than 2.

Vicar of the Flame of Aetheris Pyrism
Head of Aetheris Pyrism
cf
Vicar of the Flame, Head of Aetheris Pyrism

[JPierreD]

Should the feature come to pass I'd recommend the checkbox to be made simple. Something like this:

• Temporal titles. (King, Duke, Lord, Knight of Keplerstan)
• Spiritual titles. (As described before)

[] Special title I. (Rock Prospector of Miners Guild, Elder)
[] Special title II. (Secret Headmaster of Super-secret Society, Head)

[Indirik]

Putting in the line "Elder of Religion" is redundant. If the titles are only added for Elders, then the fact that the title is present tells you he's an Elder.

The term "Head" of the religion is incorrect. It should be Prophet or Founder to keep in line with the terms the game already uses. Also, I don't personally think that liner is necessary or makes any sense to be added at all. The title is enough. That's like signing your letter as "King of Perdan, Ruler of Perdan".

[fodder]

as stated. everyone and their dog can easily look up what a custom title of gov position means. no one knows jack about a particular religion.

barring the obvious that they high up.

[Arundel]

Vicar of the Flame, Head of Aetheris Pyrism

I misunderstood you before. This is indeed a good suggestion, and I'm disappointed with myself for not realizing it sooner. Limiting it to one title essentially makes void the whole "chalk full of titles" argument earlier.

Putting in the line "Elder of Religion" is redundant. If the titles are only added for Elders, then the fact that the title is present tells you he's an Elder.

Only if the head of the religion has his/her title stating otherwise. Then yes, I would agree with you.

The term "Head" of the religion is incorrect. It should be Prophet or Founder to keep in line with the terms the game already uses. Also, I don't personally think that liner is necessary or makes any sense to be added at all. The title is enough. That's like signing your letter as "King of Perdan, Ruler of Perdan".

No, I don't think it should be Prophet or Founder because numerous religions have been around for ages, and their Prophets/Founders have long since been gone. The term "Head" should be created.

Like fodder points out, your comparison is flawed because three clicks at maximum (Information, Realm List, Details) lets anybody identify whom the custom title belongs to, for a ruler or council member. There's absolutely no way to identify whether or not a religious member is a head, elder, full member, or even an aspirant - as is the case with the title "Priest of Bob" - thus requiring clarification.

[Indirik]

Religious titles only get added for Elders. This noble is using a religous title. Therefore, this nobles is an Elder. That makes the extra title "Elder of Religion" redundant and superfluous.

Also, I intensely dislike the term "Head of Religion". It has the completely generic feel that sounds totally inappropriate. It could also be inappropriate in some circumstances. The highest ranked noble is not necessarily the "head" of the church. The founder of SA does not really run the church. He rarely is even heard from the de facto head of the church is the Regent, at rank 2.

If religious titles for elders do get added, then add the title and leave it at that. If people are curious, they can ask.

[Draco Tanos]

Or look at the wiki (which most respectable religions should work on at leasing providing some basic info for).