The Marrocidenian war

[Vellos]

I almost wish I'd had a proper scheme to oppose Hireshmont because that would've been fun. There's not really a 'Quintus' side' in this that I can see, though. An army took over his castle and he promised to behave. If Terran falls, it won't be because Quintus didn't fight to the last man.

In other words, even if Quintus does do something to defy Hireshmont's plans (whatever those plans are), I'm not sure I see how it could be a strong enough move to make a difference. At best he could save Aurvandil a week of effort.

I'm all in favor of intrigues and there were some discussed a while back, but they didn't happen for various reasons. The 'senate trial' seems like a weirdly-timed power play against someone who just lost the power he had. So Hireshmont could ban Quintus...Aurvandil takes the Chateau. Hireshmont doesn't ban Quintus...Aurvandil takes the Chateau. If Vellos has a rabbit to pull out of his hat, Quintus being Duke or not or banned or not can hardly make a difference.

It's not a power play.

Hireshmont, as you note, has nothing to gain here: and any chance he may have had of securing personal mercy for himself (which was basically impossible) will certainly be ruined by punishing the one noble in Terran who has thus far taken such an option.

What Hireshmont is interested in is making sure that there is a republic of Terran after all of this: and not just a realm called Terran. He's asserting the superiority of the Senate and the Republic over any individual Senator.

Here's another way of thinking about it:

When I created Hireshmont II, I did so intending to play a very idealistic character who would be strictly law-and-order all the way, and deeply committed to a lofty ideal of nobility. The polar opposite of his father, who was an opportunist and pragmatist who would do anything he had to in order to achieve his (sometimes dubious) objectives.

Hireshmont is the kind of person who doesn't speed on the highway even if there aren't cops because its the Law and the Law is the manifestation of the Good. And when he brings a legal suit, he does so because its the Law– you don't have to think any more about reasons. When a lord negotiates without Senatorial permission, he attacks that lord. When Rynn negotiates with Luria without working alongside the Moot, he attacks Rynn. When a Chief Magistrate sticks his toe over the legal line, he attacks him. In Terran's early days, when a series of Generals tried to veto dukes' picks for marshals, Hireshmont the duke attacked them. He's an obsessive treaty-writer, law-giver, and idealist about the nature of order and law. If you think back on Hireshmont that interpretation will explain most everything he does. And it explains the legal suit now. Quintus broke the law. Even if breaking the law saved Terran, Quintus has got to pay, because a Terran without the law is a Terran better off dead.

[sharkattack]

"Secession   (23 minutes ago)
message to Everyone on Dwilight
The duchy of Phantaria has seceded from Terran and formed a new realm called Phantaria."

 

[mikm]

This winter came just in time.

[Scarlett]

When a lord negotiates without Senatorial permission, he attacks that lord

I understand the characterization but either you or Hireshmont are mistaking 'surrender' for 'negotiation.'

I don't usually like to talk about this stuff OOCly because I enjoy a good intrigue, and I very nearly didn't RP the surrender of the Chateau (which will continue) because I knew some people would go 'wtf why is he bowing and scraping to those people why isn't he spitting in their eye.'

What he's doing is an absolutely typical medieval surrender: find out what the bad guys want (in the short term, like 'what are your terms to stop blowing up my shizzle', not 'what are your goals for this war' as Hireshmont keeps asking them) and then give his word that he won't oppose them while they're around on this particular trip. I was surprised they even accepted since they don't gain very much for having done so but they have to trust Quintus now. Striking colors, turning over the sword, that would be grounds for exactly what Hireshmont was doing if there hadn't been a battle, or if Quintus was about to betray the Republic.

I've had characters in Hireshmont's position before where they've gone after people for trying to strike deals on behalf of the realm when not empowered to do so, and that's definitely a legit choice. But this particular move makes me think more 'Hireshmont has gone Citizen Kane' than Inspector Javert. Particularly if the goal was to insure that the Republic of Terran continued to exist. Quintus may be an old bastard but he was one of the few people propping the place up. Once you lost Dallas and Labell you were really down to two or maybe three such people in the whole realm.

[^ban^]

When I created Hireshmont II, I did so intending to play a very idealistic character who would be strictly law-and-order all the way, and deeply committed to a lofty ideal of nobility. The polar opposite of his father, who was an opportunist and pragmatist who would do anything he had to in order to achieve his (sometimes dubious) objectives.

Hireshmont II is - in many ways - not only the polar opposite of his father, but also his mother, and brother, each in different ways. Considering Retravic's need to constantly have more power, and Valachi's fanaticism, Hireshmont II wasis probably the best of the whole bunch.

[Vellos]

I understand the characterization but either you or Hireshmont are mistaking 'surrender' for 'negotiation.'

I don't usually like to talk about this stuff OOCly because I enjoy a good intrigue, and I very nearly didn't RP the surrender of the Chateau (which will continue) because I knew some people would go 'wtf why is he bowing and scraping to those people why isn't he spitting in their eye.'

What he's doing is an absolutely typical medieval surrender: find out what the bad guys want (in the short term, like 'what are your terms to stop blowing up my shizzle', not 'what are your goals for this war' as Hireshmont keeps asking them) and then give his word that he won't oppose them while they're around on this particular trip. I was surprised they even accepted since they don't gain very much for having done so but they have to trust Quintus now. Striking colors, turning over the sword, that would be grounds for exactly what Hireshmont was doing if there hadn't been a battle, or if Quintus was about to betray the Republic.

I've had characters in Hireshmont's position before where they've gone after people for trying to strike deals on behalf of the realm when not empowered to do so, and that's definitely a legit choice. But this particular move makes me think more 'Hireshmont has gone Citizen Kane' than Inspector Javert. Particularly if the goal was to insure that the Republic of Terran continued to exist. Quintus may be an old bastard but he was one of the few people propping the place up. Once you lost Dallas and Labell you were really down to two or maybe three such people in the whole realm.

Oh I know it was a typically medieval surrender.

Hireshmont is arguing that Quintus had no right to surrender; that only the Magistracy can offer a typically Medieval surrender. He was asserting the primacy of the Senate.

But now the end of Terran has basically come. It'll be neat to see what comes in its place. Honestly, I thought Hireshmont was done for after the Erasmus affair– I've been shocked at how I've managed to rehabilitate his career. I guess we'll see now if I'll be able to pull anything out of this debacle.

Well played to Kale though. I've known about his Phantarian contingency plan with Labell for several RL years, but I completely forgot about it in this instance. And now he's played his trump card. Hireshmont really has nothing left.

[dustole]

Isnt that a Strategic Secession though?  By my interpretation of the rules I would say yes, but I am not sure and so I opened up a topic on it in the Question and Answer part of the Courthouse.   

[Scarlett]

It wouldn't work to Kale's advantage to make it anything like a strategic secession. If he just sets up Terran Mk II, Aurvandil and Asylon will show up and clobber it.

Besides which, I don't think that all of Terran is going with it.

[Scarlett]

Hireshmont is arguing that Quintus had no right to surrender; that only the Magistracy can offer a typically Medieval surrender

There is no precedent for this, even in the Roman Republic. Provinces still had governors and governors would make that call. The Senate can surrender for the whole realm, which Quintus obviously can't do; but they don't collectively hold every castle.

Even so - since precedent is hardly required - seems to be in the camp of fiddling while Rome burns.

[Perth]

But now the end of Terran has basically come. It'll be neat to see what comes in its place. Honestly, I thought Hireshmont was done for after the Erasmus affair– I've been shocked at how I've managed to rehabilitate his career. I guess we'll see now if I'll be able to pull anything out of this debacle.

Well played to Kale though. I've known about his Phantarian contingency plan with Labell for several RL years, but I completely forgot about it in this instance. And now he's played his trump card. Hireshmont really has nothing left.

Maybe it's about time to break out that interesting Zuma orphan you've been holding back for so long? 

[Vellos]

Maybe it's about time to break out that interesting Zuma orphan you've been holding back for so long? 

Problem: He's in Riombara.

Hireshmont still has a career in the church to conclude before I dispose of him in the first of Walfurgisnacht.

I think launching my characters into magical fire or mystical sacrifice is going to be a trope for this line of characters.

[Vellos]

There is no precedent for this, even in the Roman Republic. Provinces still had governors and governors would make that call. The Senate can surrender for the whole realm, which Quintus obviously can't do; but they don't collectively hold every castle.

Even so - since precedent is hardly required - seems to be in the camp of fiddling while Rome burns.

Hireshmont is arguing that they do collectively hold every castle: that every noble has a duty to the republic prior to their own lands.

I the player do not expect other characters to side with Hireshmont. But this argument is a logical necessity based on his whole career. Obviously it's an extremely restrictive position– but that doesn't matter.

Hireshmont is fiddling while Rome burns because he believes that Rome without music is worthless.

[Solari]

Hireshmont is arguing that they do collectively hold every castle: that every noble has a duty to the republic prior to their own lands.

This is called Luria. Stabbity knows this. He's trolling you, I think.

[Arundel]

Hireshmont is arguing that they do collectively hold every castle: that every noble has a duty to the republic prior to their own lands.

This is called Luria.

I sure as heck hope it's not Luria. I most certainly have no intention of promulgating this kind of behavior.
Riombara has this behavior, and it really irks me. I would hate to have that in my realm as well.

On the note of Luria, I must say everything progressed quickly, without much notification from Terran. We promised food, gold, and military aid should things get dire, but I've not heard a word beyond what's been said in SA channels. Sup with all the silence, holmes?

[Penchant]

I sure as heck hope it's not Luria. I most certainly have no intention of promulgating this kind of behavior.
Riombara has this behavior, and it really irks me. I would hate to have that in my realm as well.

On the note of Luria, I must say everything progressed quickly, without much notification from Terran. We promised food, gold, and military aid should things get dire, but I've not heard a word beyond what's been said in SA channels. Sup with all the silence, holmes?

More support, for what I said is Terran's big diplomatic failure. They get all these allies, then tell them nothing. No body can help you if you don't tell them that bad !@#$ is happening.