Author Topic: The Marrocidenian war  (Read 547384 times)

Lanyon

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Re: The Marrocidenian war
« Reply #120: October 13, 2012, 03:15:10 PM »
Pot, meet kettle. I swear I can't hear your criticisms over Aurvandil's weird, manic desire to convince everyone they're the Good Guy.

And I was trying to convince him that we were the good guy how? I just said I like cookies and they are losing.

Chenier

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Re: The Marrocidenian war
« Reply #121: October 13, 2012, 03:16:47 PM »
Pot, meet kettle. I swear I can't hear your criticisms over Aurvandil's weird, manic desire to convince everyone they're the Good Guy.

Some may be happy to see Aurvandil strike at the 'moot, but I doubt anyone outside of Aurvandil/Falkir seriously think that they are the poor victims they portray themselves to be on the forums.
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Feylonis

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Re: The Marrocidenian war
« Reply #122: October 13, 2012, 03:31:33 PM »
And I was trying to convince him that we were the good guy how? I just said I like cookies and they are losing.

Read: Aurvandil isn't some high mighty hero who's better than the 'moot. Aurvandil complains just as much about how 'everyone is against them', etc.

Lanyon

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Re: The Marrocidenian war
« Reply #123: October 13, 2012, 03:35:49 PM »
Some may be happy to see Aurvandil strike at the 'moot, but I doubt anyone outside of Aurvandil/Falkir seriously think that they are the poor victims they portray themselves to be on the forums.

We don't portray our realm as "poor Victims" I'm trying to show you guys that Aurvandil isn't the "big bad" that you guys think it is. You obviously have a skewed view of this since you've been on the losing side of our army once or twice and have watched us beat your moot into a pulp. That's O.K. I understand you're angry because we seem like we can't be beat, but we really aren't the horrible atrocious witches that you think we are. Really I just want people to see us as another realm with its own quirks and intricacies like all other realms. Yea we have had our bad moments. Other realms haven't? You don't see any other realms get focused with so much hate and disdain for their faults, mishaps, or actions as you do Aurvandil.  Yes I'm complaining that everyone is against us because that is dang sure what it seems like sometimes.

Feylonis

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Re: The Marrocidenian war
« Reply #124: October 13, 2012, 03:44:15 PM »
I'm going to hazard a guess that it's because Aurvandil has entitlement issues and high horse mentality.

Chenier

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Re: The Marrocidenian war
« Reply #125: October 13, 2012, 04:17:11 PM »
We don't portray our realm as "poor Victims" I'm trying to show you guys that Aurvandil isn't the "big bad" that you guys think it is. You obviously have a skewed view of this since you've been on the losing side of our army once or twice and have watched us beat your moot into a pulp. That's O.K. I understand you're angry because we seem like we can't be beat, but we really aren't the horrible atrocious witches that you think we are. Really I just want people to see us as another realm with its own quirks and intricacies like all other realms. Yea we have had our bad moments. Other realms haven't? You don't see any other realms get focused with so much hate and disdain for their faults, mishaps, or actions as you do Aurvandil.  Yes I'm complaining that everyone is against us because that is dang sure what it seems like sometimes.

I wasn't even there when Aurvandil defeated any D'Haran army, if beat any it did. What hurt us wasn't Aurvandil, it was starvation.

What happened is that Aurvandil signed a border agreement with Barca. Then decided not only to give lent regions back, but to keep and take more from them, with no provocation. It then decided it had the right to decide who was legitimate in Barca or not. It then decided it had the right to declare Barca to be a non-state. Then, it decided it would plop new colonies in our territories. All the while, saying the "evil 'moot attacked us, we never wanted war!"

Sure.

You forced this war onto us, and then claim it was never your intent when it was obvious attacking Barca would result in this. A few in the 'moot might have wanted war against Aurvandil, but it would have absolutely never have happened had you not broken your treaty with Barca and attacked them without provocation. (How can you seriously claim you haven't broken the "In the event that the cival war meets it natural conclusion, Evanburg will be returned to the Republic of Barca" provision...) You tried to force an unspecified government change in Barca, and then tried to mingle in D'Haran politics. Before the war, you wouldn't didn't feel like selling us food. Even if we were at peace and you had never attacked us, you make for a really !@#$ty neighbor.
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Lanyon

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Re: The Marrocidenian war
« Reply #126: October 13, 2012, 04:37:41 PM »
I wasn't even there when Aurvandil defeated any D'Haran army, if beat any it did. What hurt us wasn't Aurvandil, it was starvation.

What happened is that Aurvandil signed a border agreement with Barca. Then decided not only to give lent regions back, but to keep and take more from them, with no provocation. It then decided it had the right to decide who was legitimate in Barca or not. It then decided it had the right to declare Barca to be a non-state. Then, it decided it would plop new colonies in our territories. All the while, saying the "evil 'moot attacked us, we never wanted war!"

Sure.

You forced this war onto us, and then claim it was never your intent when it was obvious attacking Barca would result in this. A few in the 'moot might have wanted war against Aurvandil, but it would have absolutely never have happened had you not broken your treaty with Barca and attacked them without provocation. (How can you seriously claim you haven't broken the "In the event that the cival war meets it natural conclusion, Evanburg will be returned to the Republic of Barca" provision...) You tried to force an unspecified government change in Barca, and then tried to mingle in D'Haran politics. Before the war, you wouldn't didn't feel like selling us food. Even if we were at peace and you had never attacked us, you make for a really !@#$ty neighbor.

No we forced Barca into war. Whether you think so or not you had a choice as to whether to enter the war or not. I don't see how most of that had anything to do with what I last posted besides just trying to prove you you are against us. Most of those points have already been explained by Medicant IC and OOC and he is in a much better position to argue that than I am. We're not a really !@#$ty neighbor just a really !@#$ty enemy ;)

Chenier

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Re: The Marrocidenian war
« Reply #127: October 13, 2012, 04:47:35 PM »
No we forced Barca into war. Whether you think so or not you had a choice as to whether to enter the war or not. I don't see how most of that had anything to do with what I last posted besides just trying to prove you you are against us. Most of those points have already been explained by Medicant IC and OOC and he is in a much better position to argue that than I am. We're not a really !@#$ty neighbor just a really !@#$ty enemy ;)

You were annoying before we were at war.

Mendicant's explanations... So what if he didn't try to "force" D'Hara to become a monarchy? The mere proposal of aiding a transition is meddling in our business. So what if he didn't ask specific reforms from Barca, he still forced them to adopt some against their will. So what if Barca never asked for Evanburg (doubtful), the treaty still states he has to give it back once their war with Madina is over. As for Paisly, he agreed to give it back when we signed peace, and now he's gonna plop a colony there anyways?

The nuances he tries to bring are pointless.

You went to war against the 'moot. Wake up. Treaty of the Maroccidens, C) iii. All signing realms have an obligation, insofar as it is possible, to provide military aid for the defense of other signing realms, if they should come under threat by man, beast, or abomination. In particular, the cities of Paisly, Chesney, and Rettleville are regarded as joint security responsibilities of the signing realms, given their nearness to threats from man, beast, and abomination, and their nearness to one another. Not only you attacked Barca, but you sieged Rettleville, which is specifically mentioned in this article. Don't try to claim you didn't know the Treaty of the Maroccidens existed, you were made aware of it much before the war. We are a federation. It's like if we attacked Candiels, and then said "Oh, well we just attacked the duchy of Candiels, none of the other duchies had to attack us!"
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Anaris

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Re: The Marrocidenian war
« Reply #128: October 13, 2012, 04:50:35 PM »
Riiiiiight. Never mind the fact the most of their rulers have been SA priests for some time, now, and that they've done multiple moves to woo SA.

Erm...as usual, your Lurian facts are pretty off-base.

To my knowledge, only one Lurian ruler has ever been an SA priest. I can't say for certain which rulers are or have been SA members (besides the aforementioned priest), but presently exactly 0 are SA priests. (As a matter of fact, I think that presently all the Lurian rulers are members of Aetheris Pyrism, though as Alanna's not a member I can't say for sure.)

The Lurias have always tolerated SA, and tried to remain in its political good graces. We will not, however, be ruled by it. Not now, not ever.
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MediumTedium

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Re: The Marrocidenian war
« Reply #129: October 13, 2012, 04:59:51 PM »
Hey,i have an idea,why don't we all join SA and make Dwilight the most boring world to play in? Sounds like a plan?
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Chenier

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Re: The Marrocidenian war
« Reply #130: October 13, 2012, 05:05:37 PM »
Removed Glaumring quote at his request.

And we aren't anyone's lapdogs, never were. But if we are getting closer to SA, it's because Aurvandil is forcing us to. Had Aurvandil respected their treaties and let us be, we never would have bothered to organize military cooperation with the North against them. Seriously, it's like America trying to organize putsches in Cuba, and wondering why the hell it then aligns itself with the USSR. Or China bullying Vietnam, and wondering why they align with the USSR instead of themselves. It amazes me how astounded Aurvandilians seem to be that we defend ourselves instead of just playing dead.

Erm...as usual, your Lurian facts are pretty off-base.

To my knowledge, only one Lurian ruler has ever been an SA priest. I can't say for certain which rulers are or have been SA members (besides the aforementioned priest), but presently exactly 0 are SA priests. (As a matter of fact, I think that presently all the Lurian rulers are members of Aetheris Pyrism, though as Alanna's not a member I can't say for sure.)

The Lurias have always tolerated SA, and tried to remain in its political good graces. We will not, however, be ruled by it. Not now, not ever.

Malus Solari was one. I seem to recall at least one or two Luria Nova rulers being priests of SA. Then there's the dukes and other government members, over time. That today none of the rulers is SA doesn't mean that historically, SA faithful had quite a few positions with pull in the Lurias.

Pardon my exaggeration, though. But the 'moot fought an SA realm (Kabrinskia, a theocracy!), something that the Lurias have never done.

Hey,i have an idea,why don't we all join SA and make Dwilight the most boring world to play in? Sounds like a plan?

If Aurvandil threatens the only non-SA realms with destruction, expect this to happen. It's really amazing how Aurvandil hates SA so much, but decides to strike at the least SA block of the continent. What do they expect us to do, join them!? We've put years of struggle into building our realms, against insane monster hordes which we managed to eventually push back, foreign threats which we prevented from having serious impacts to this point, and massive and recurring starvation which we finally had under control. After all of this history, do you think we want to fold under the reign of an uppity monarch with a victimization complex?
« Last Edit: October 15, 2012, 06:18:01 AM by egamma »
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MediumTedium

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Re: The Marrocidenian war
« Reply #131: October 13, 2012, 05:14:29 PM »
Barca would have had a better chance of recovering and wouldn't have to becomes the daemons wipping boy.
You would have Paisly back by now and could focus on the lurians.
Terran wouldn't be facing Medicant's will or the gold sink that is this war.
If y'all hadn't attacked Aurvandil.

That's what I'm saying

As far as i know this is what would happen if you hadn't attacked Aurvandil as Lanyon said.
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Anaris

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Re: The Marrocidenian war
« Reply #132: October 13, 2012, 05:17:37 PM »
Malus Solari was one. I seem to recall at least one or two Luria Nova rulers being priests of SA. Then there's the dukes and other government members, over time. That today none of the rulers is SA doesn't mean that historically, SA faithful had quite a few positions with pull in the Lurias.

I never claimed that there were not SA members in high positions. I am skeptical about multiple LN rulers having been priests, but as I don't have the facts in front of me (and wasn't even present for a chunk of LN history) I can't say for certain.

Quote
Pardon my exaggeration, though. But the 'moot fought an SA realm (Kabrinskia, a theocracy!), something that the Lurias have never done.

Given that Luria has, in its 4-year history, fought exactly 2 realms outside of Luria (Fissoa and D'Hara), that ain't saying much.
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Chenier

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Re: The Marrocidenian war
« Reply #133: October 13, 2012, 05:21:39 PM »
As far as i know this is what would happen if you hadn't attacked Aurvandil as Lanyon said.

Except that despite what Lanyon said, you attacked the 'moot, and not the other way around.

Barca would not have sided with the daimons had Aurvandil not attacked it.
We'd have Paisly back and the Lurias wouldn't have back-stabbed us had you not triggered war with our federation.

I really find it astounding how you can, in all seriousness, claim you are the victims here, when it's pretty blatently clear to everyone else that you are the aggressors.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2012, 05:55:13 PM by Chénier »
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egamma

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Re: The Marrocidenian war
« Reply #134: October 13, 2012, 05:49:12 PM »
Barca, Terran, and D'Hara never marched an army onto regions of Aurvandil. How can you say we attacked Aurvandil?