The Marrocidenian war

[Solari]

Oh, are we allied with Fiorenza? As far as I know we have only signed a peace treaty with them. Making us as much allies with them as with any other realm on Dwilight.

I'm not sure if you actually believe this statement, but if not, you should know that people are right to feel insulted when game mechanics are employed as a screen for actual intentions. This would hardly be the first instance (this month, even), but the reaction is always the same: incredulity that people expect everyone else to pack up their stuff and go home because a piece of parchment says "peace", particularly if there's evidence to the contrary. It is analogous to saying "who are going going to believe? Me, or your eyes?"

[DamnTaffer]

How can people SERIOUSLY believe this crap? Aurvandil created a 3-man colony from stolen D'Haran lands, for the SPECIFIC reason of creating a buffer between Aurvandil and others (Mendicant said so many times), and Aurvandilians wonder why people (including D'Harans) don't like this new realm!?

There is no neutrality. It has been made painfully clear since the first day that the idea was mentioned that the colony wouldn't be tolerated.

How about we go form a colony in Candiels, and claim it's a neutral new polity with no instructions on whose side to be on? I'm sure Aurvandil would be delighted by this, right?

Pretty sure Mendicant offered to give D'hara the lands but D'hara were busy wearing there asses on there heads to negotiate properly.

[Glaumring the Fox]

Asylon backstabbing us doesn't make the bunch any more neutral.

The pot calling the kettle black. We are defending the new realm to insure diversity in Dwilight and also to cultivate strong allies in place of the fickle and flaccid alliances that have gone on before.

[Lorgan]

The pot calling the kettle black.

Isn't that what this thread is all about?

[DamnTaffer]

I'm not sure if you actually believe this statement, but if not, you should know that people are right to feel insulted when game mechanics are employed as a screen for actual intentions. This would hardly be the first instance (this month, even), but the reaction is always the same: incredulity that people expect everyone else to pack up their stuff and go home because a piece of parchment says "peace", particularly if there's evidence to the contrary. It is analogous to saying "who are going going to believe? Me, or your eyes?"

Please, Do suggest the evidence  to the contrary or are accusations without evidence your norm?

[dustole]

The real reason that the northern realms attacked the new colony is because they can't march any further south.  Morale losses due to distance from home are BIG.  They marched all that way for weeks and then sat around for days waiting for Terran to figure out what was going on before hey finally figured out which way the sword points.  By that time they had been in the field for a really long time and they couldn't march much further south.  They had to attack something.  Anything.  So the new colony got clobbered.


Aurvandil stands a good chance.  The SA realms can't attack them since he is too far south.  My alternative plan for a war against Aurvandil was shot down and now it looks like it will be the only plausible means of waging an effective war against Aurvandil.  All Aurvandil has to do is get good reports of where the northern armies are.  Once they leave, whack Terran really hard, pillage and burn everything they can and then refit when the northern armies march south again.  In the mean time while the Northern armies are in the area they just continue to annex Barcan regions.

[Solari]

Please, Do suggest the evidence  to the contrary or are accusations without evidence your norm?

It isn't an accusation. It's a potential explanation for why "trust us, we mean you no harm!" isn't going over well. Dial down the persecution complex. There is evidence to support this explanation IC. Malus has seen some of it, and he isn't even tangentially involved. Do people not actually communicate IC? It feels like these types of threads are becoming subsititutes for the necessary IC communication that should accompany IC decisions.

[Glaumring the Fox]

The forums are and so mych of how people treat eachother or react is because of the forum. I know I did it once and how the information flows on this forum makes me think almost everyone is living a double life. I was lucky I got nipped in the bud the first time I did it, many many of you have yet to check your IC/IG persona.

[MediumTedium]

The real reason that the northern realms attacked the new colony is because they can't march any further south.  Morale losses due to distance from home are BIG.  They marched all that way for weeks and then sat around for days waiting for Terran to figure out what was going on before hey finally figured out which way the sword points.  By that time they had been in the field for a really long time and they couldn't march much further south.  They had to attack something.  Anything.  So the new colony got clobbered.


Aurvandil stands a good chance.  The SA realms can't attack them since he is too far south.  My alternative plan for a war against Aurvandil was shot down and now it looks like it will be the only plausible means of waging an effective war against Aurvandil.  All Aurvandil has to do is get good reports of where the northern armies are.  Once they leave, whack Terran really hard, pillage and burn everything they can and then refit when the northern armies march south again.  In the mean time while the Northern armies are in the area they just continue to annex Barcan regions.

You should join us there is plenty of Terran "cake" for everyone! Don't make us eat all of it by ourselves



-These discussions are so heated even real life political stuff doesn't match this lol

[NoblesseChevaleresque]

How can people SERIOUSLY believe this crap? Aurvandil created a 3-man colony from stolen D'Haran lands, for the SPECIFIC reason of creating a buffer between Aurvandil and others (Mendicant said so many times), and Aurvandilians wonder why people (including D'Harans) don't like this new realm!?

There is no neutrality. It has been made painfully clear since the first day that the idea was mentioned that the colony wouldn't be tolerated.

How about we go form a colony in Candiels, and claim it's a neutral new polity with no instructions on whose side to be on? I'm sure Aurvandil would be delighted by this, right?

I love how out of touch you are with the situation that you think that is a fair comparison.

Firstly, Paisly isn't your capital, secondly Paisly isn't your only city, it's one of about four that you have including one stronghold that can also support a capital, thirdly as far as I am aware you weren't founded in Paisly, and fifth, Aurvandil conquered Paisly when you were too incompetent to keep the city and too proud to accept Aurvandilan food to feed it. The only real comparison you can make is to say if Evanburg was a city and we lost it due to starvation and then you make a neutral realm in it. You cannot say Candiels and act like it is a fair comparison as it is our only city, our capital, the place where we were founded and it wouldn't be a region we lose due to incompetent administration but instead through military conquest. There is a world of difference.

And of course its going to be a buffer, a two way buffer for both sides. That was the point, to make it so neither side borders the other or can directly attack each other without first making an enemy of the third party realm.

I don't expect you to like it, or even care if do, the realm was created to serve a function as far as Mendicant and Aurvandil care, a function it'll end up serving one way or another.

And yes, to DamnTaffer, I did offer to let them keep Paisly several times, once to Gornak in exchange for peace, and once to Rynn for peace, in both instances with Aurvandil having dropped all demands save for peace, and then I would again offer to hand them Paisly if D'Hara would become neutral diplomatically, and they refused, as Rynn was obviously just being slimy when he thought he could get something out of Mendicant by promising him the world, but then refusing to actually do anything to show he meant it, which became obvious weeks ago when he tried to break from the Moot and make D'Hara a  Monarchy of his own accord, failed and then blamed it all on Mendicant pretending it had been demands from Aurvandil for peace. Aurvandil couldn't trust such an obvious politician to actually be neutral whilst they are federated to one side of the war.  D'Hara can be as pissed as they like but they brought it on themselves for repeatedly refusing unconditional peace's, to actually compromise with Aurvandil and refusing Aurvandilan food when the city starved.

[Glaumring the Fox]

Terran and D'Hara being slimy? No! Impossible!

[NoblesseChevaleresque]

Terran and D'Hara being slimy? No! Impossible!

It's probably the reason why Mendicant likes Glaumring and Aslyon, despite them both entirely disagreeing on everything from war, to religion, to the way Asylon runs it's kingdom. Glaumring may be eccentric and Asylon entirely opposite to Aurvandil on a lot of things, but at least you have a proper diplomatic negotiation with them without pretence or slimy political deals, that is when you can get a straight and consistent answer from Glaumring however, the amount of times he changes his mind over topics when talking to Mendicant is staggering. He seemed to do it every other letter during his war with Kabrinskia.

[Glaumring the Fox]

Hey at least I change my mind consistantly... What usually happens is I throw out ideas all the time and then when a better idea comes I throw out that one too. I wont stick too something that I know wont work once seeing it from an angle, I think and talk on my feet. Things change fast in war and many of the rulers in Dwilight think way too slow and do not communicate or throw ideas out often. Im an idea man.

[Vellos]

Ya know why I see Fioreniza, Falkirk, and Aurvandil as the same?

The have the same freaking color on the statistics page. It's annoying as hell. Gotta kill at least two of them just to make the stats page readable again.

[Perth]

Firstly, Paisly isn't your capital, secondly Paisly isn't your only city, it's one of about four that you have including one stronghold that can also support a capital, thirdly as far as I am aware you weren't founded in Paisly, and fifth, Aurvandil conquered Paisly when you were too incompetent to keep the city and too proud to accept Aurvandilan food to feed it. The only real comparison you can make is to say if Evanburg was a city and we lost it due to starvation and then you make a neutral realm in it. You cannot say Candiels and act like it is a fair comparison as it is our only city, our capital, the place where we were founded and it wouldn't be a region we lose due to incompetent administration but instead through military conquest. There is a world of difference.

You are obviously completely ignorant of what Paisly means to the Véinsørmoot. It is the jewel of the Maroccidens, it is the birthplace of Maroccidental culture, civilization, and society. Melodia was born there and started the long tradition of Maroccidental Republics and societies. From there Nobles spread to Terran and the Dragon Isles and eventually nobles passed through Paisly to come to Terran to create Barca.

Furthermore, there is a history of fighting to protect the city from Southern invaders and conquerors. We fought long, drawn out wars against Madina to keep the city when they refused to release their claim on it. Aurvandil taking the city is just ripping open all of the old wounds of Southern Imperialists always trying to impose and conquer in the Maroccidens and the small realms vying to stay alive and keep their land. You are Madina reborn.

It isn't different at all. Sure, it's not technically the "Capital" of any realm. But as much as Candiels is the birthplace of Aurvandil and their culture and their history, Paisly is the same thing, except with an even deeper and longer history and significance, to the entire Maroccidens. There is reason why Terran is fighting so hard for regions that aren't even theirs to begin with.

Literally, conquering Paisly and putting some insulting puppet realm there (and here I thought relations couldn't get any worse) is the worst thing you could have ever done for relations with the Maroccidental realms short of just taking Terran, Barca, and D'Hara off the map.