The Marrocidenian war

[Glaumring the Fox]

People say Asylon is a big realm but they never take into account we are apart of no federations or organizations. SA is one giant realm, SA will never fight SA. The Moot is one large realm they will never fight eachother. Asylon allies according to situations, we feel no need to have everyone on the map love us.

[Gustav Kuriga]

If things come about as I plan, the realm that takes the place of Kabrinskia will be different.

[Perth]

Asylon hasnt done anything to make anyone think we support Aurvandiil beyond mentioning it on these forums. Asides from supporting a small colony there is absolutely no reason to think that Asylon is in cahoots with Aurvandiil.

Right... but supporting that realm is a really big reason to think Asylon is buddies with Aurvandil. There doesn't need be other reasons. When you are supporting a realm conquering the heart of their enemy and setting up new colonies there, its a pretty good indication that you support that realm. In fact, it doesn't get much more supportive than that.

[Chenier]

Because both IC-wise and OOC-wise the Dukes of Asylon belive that once we split up in our seperate kingdoms, Astrum or Kabrinskia(well not anymore) will come marching in and start forcing us to worship their stars. At the moment we will remain united.

There are plenty of reasons other than a will to spread theocracies that could push Asylon's neighbors to attack you. I'd say most of them are of your own doing. Glaumring managed to turn friendly neighbourly relations into hostile ones with all of his neighbors in a very short amount of time. Terran and D'Hara used to view Asylon very favorably, especially D'Hara. I hope you can imagine how supporting Florence and constantly sending priests to our realm has permanently ruined your relations with the 'moot.

If other realms have hostile intents with Asylon, it really is not in any way due to a desire to spread astroism.

Also, smaller realms mean more taxes, closer recruitment centres. If you broke up into a federation of realms, you wouldn't really be all that much more vulnerable. That is, as long as you trust each other.

People say Asylon is a big realm but they never take into account we are apart of no federations or organizations. SA is one giant realm, SA will never fight SA. The Moot is one large realm they will never fight eachother. Asylon allies according to situations, we feel no need to have everyone on the map love us.

Asylon chose to say a nice big "FU" to all of their neighbors, but had a nice number of friends before. D'Hara even tried to have the charter of the 'moot modified at one point to integrate Asylon as a semi-member. Nobody forced diplomatic isolation onto Asylon.

And you are wrong. One day, SA will fight SA. And though we do our best to keep the 'moot united, I would never say never. All alliances need nurturing.

And let me add there's quite a difference between limiting one's alliances to prevent diplomatic gridlock and punctual alliances and friendships that are broken as convenient to do so.

Right... but supporting that realm is a really big reason to think Asylon is buddies with Aurvandil. There doesn't need be other reasons. When you are supporting a realm conquering the heart of their enemy and setting up new colonies there, its a pretty good indication that you support that realm. In fact, it doesn't get much more supportive than that.

Indeed. Asylon supports the usurpers. The usurpers are a puppet of Aurvandil. Ipso facto, Asylon supports Aurvandil.

[Glaumring the Fox]

Whats wrong with supporting Aurvandiil? All I hear about is SA plans to invade Asylon from even before the war against Kabrinskia. The only Astroist state that Asylon gets along with is Morek.

If we support SA we support all of our eventual dooms, for all kingdoms not a theocracy are merely a tool to be used by SA. There is no room for diversity in fundamentalist theocracy and if you think SA will change to accomadate your diverse kingdom you are wrong.

[Chenier]

Whats wrong with supporting Aurvandiil? All I hear about is SA plans to invade Asylon from even before the war against Kabrinskia. The only Astroist state that Asylon gets along with is Morek.

If we support SA we support all of our eventual dooms, for all kingdoms not a theocracy are merely a tool to be used by SA. There is no room for diversity in fundamentalist theocracy and if you think SA will change to accomadate your diverse kingdom you are wrong.

You mean, aside from the fact that Aurvandil is the only thing that could have ever caused the 'moot to align itself in such a way with the theocracies?

You fear the spread of the astrocracies so much, and yet out of this fear you support the very elements that are provoking it.

Had the war continued on badly without northern intervention, I wouldn't have been surprised to see 'moot realms starting to offer converting to SA or adopting a theocratic government style in order to get SA's help. I know a few would much rather live as "puppets" to SA than as puppets to Mendicant. I doubt it would have been in SA's advantage to let Aurvandil grow out of control just to get a few more converts, but still the fact remains that the Aurvandilian threat is a much more likely force to make people adopt SA than SA is itself. Many people, when faced with a lose-lose scenario between siding with one of two opposing blocs, will side with the enemy of whoever attacked them first, just out of spite. Many D'Harans are proud of being D'Haran, for example, and would not stand being a vassal to any foreign blocs. But if D'Hara is menaced with extinction, these people are sure as hell to do all in their power, whatever the cost, to get back at the people who stole their realm from them.

Aurvandil won't help you prevent SA hegemony. The only thing it can do is incite non-aligned parties to join in on the hegemony just to better resist Aurvandil's unnatural strength. And besides, at least in SA you can try to go up the ranks and get involved in the power plays. Sure beats being Mendicant's bitch and being part of their fishy scheme that pumps CS and gold out of nowhere.

[Glaumring the Fox]

Chenier you do not realize how tenuous your little sand castle truly is and you would be shocked to find out how many nobles in the moot and SA oppose SA and actually support stemming its gargantuan growth. Things that will become very apparent soon enough.

The issue with Asylon and its neighbors has never been about the nobles, ut has always been about opposition to the duplicity and schemeinf of Chenier and Vellos. Two leaders on their way to obsolencense very soon and a new order of things replacing your bumbling leadership.

[Glaumring the Fox]

I remember not long ago Aurvandiil and D'Hara were buddy buddy and it wasnt until Aurvandiil attacked Barca that your opinions so drastically changed about Aurvandiil. I remember, you can deny but things used to be very different indeed.

[Perth]

Whats wrong with supporting Aurvandiil?

Nothing, OOCly.

ICly, to people of the 'moot, everything. To the 'Moot supporting Aurvandil is supporting the destruction of the 'Moot and their entire way of life. That's what we were talking about.

I originally posted that, from our perspective, Asylon seemed buddy buddy with Aurvandil lately, and you objected, and I said that supporting the puppet in Paisly is about as supportive as you can get and insulting as you can get to the 'Moot. Thus, ICly from the 'Moot perspective, Asylon is basically saying "hey, we don't like you guys and don't want you to be around anymore. We prefer Aurvandil hegemony in the Maroccidens."

[Glaumring the Fox]

The Moot ended its friendship with Asylon because it was convenient. Asylon doesnt even know why Terran stopped being friendly.

[Feylonis]

Probably it had to do with flip flopping during the Terran-Kabrinskia war.

[Glaumring the Fox]

No it wasn't that it was something else. I vaguely remember sending Vellos a letter criticizing something he did or said and he used it as an immediate pretext to withdrawal all obligations with defending Asylon to go and defend Barca. It came as a complete shock to Asylon and showed us that Terran wasn't as dedicated to Asylon as we were to them.

[Glaumring the Fox]

Anyways all this talk of an old war is of no use. Asylon has great relations with the new magistrate of Terran and several other kingdoms in the area. Chenier and Vellos are has beens.

[Anaris]

No it wasn't that it was something else.

This is part of your problem, Glaumring. Instead of believing what people say about the reasons for their own actions, you just decide that they've done them for some completely different reason, rather than accept that they did something you dislike because of your own unpredictable and unpalatable actions.

I have no idea whether it's actually true of this specific instance, but it's one of the things I've seen you do in the past.

[Indirik]

you would be shocked to find out how many nobles in the moot and SA oppose SA and actually support stemming its gargantuan growth.

Actually, I would not be all that surprised about it. Most of us are quite certain that there are a significant number of members that are actually plants/spies/etc. It doesn't take much to figure this out. Just say something bad about Mendicant, or about attacking Aurvandil, in the Full Members channel, and chances are that in a few days someone will slip you a letter about how someone in Aurvandil is laughing it up at that letter. We've kicked out a few obvious spies/plants, but we all know there are more.