Author Topic: The Marrocidenian war  (Read 547526 times)

NoblesseChevaleresque

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Re: The Marrocidenian war
« Reply #720: November 22, 2012, 08:38:47 PM »
Better than having a frog run it into the ground ;)

We're worse than that.

We're Englishmen pretending to be French.

Lychaon

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Re: The Marrocidenian war
« Reply #721: November 22, 2012, 08:57:48 PM »
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Not quite sure what you're trying to say there.

Sorry, I didn't write correctly. I can't imagine a non-violent way to screw into ruin by war declarations "the best army on Dwilight and quite arguably the game". Maybe with roleplay such as that one about a lady being raped and beaten? Anyway, you should be able to put order at home with a bunch of nobles while you take some others to raid other regions.

Woah. The Dev Team has to be licking tropical frogs if they allowed a "rogue non-state" to summon some nasty demons to try to dictate Your Majesty what he can or can't do! Well, at least for that period maybe you could feel something similar to some other realms in Dwilight ;D  Anyway I was talking about your Falkirkian affairs. A pitty, though; you seemed such a nice couple...

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No, we're just annoyed at being played in politics.

Big boys tricked by the Moot? The world is going crazy... Problem solved anyway, right?

NoblesseChevaleresque

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Re: The Marrocidenian war
« Reply #722: November 22, 2012, 09:08:27 PM »
Sorry, I didn't write correctly. I can't imagine a non-violent way to screw into ruin by war declarations "the best army on Dwilight and quite arguably the game". Maybe with roleplay such as that one about a lady being raped and beaten? Anyway, you should be able to put order at home with a bunch of nobles while you take some others to raid other regions.

War protests, brought Aurvandil to its knees in a day. We had to take the entire time since the Provincia's founding to now just to stabilise, and even then we've just lost another two regions to revolt. And Aurvandil doesn't really do raids, it goes against the way we conduct war. We march with as fuller force as possible and look to fight the enemy in battle. We rarely march without the full panoply of our four armies arrayed and rarely with the intent for anything but victory against the enemy in battle. We seek the glory of battle more than we seek the path to victory. And when we do defeat our enemies, we never sack or raid, the only time we have done that was the destruction of Madina, otherwise as with regions like Rettleville we wiped out all fortifications, take the gold and leave.

Woah. The Dev Team has to be licking tropical frogs if they allowed a "rogue non-state" to summon some nasty demons to try to dictate Your Majesty what he can or can't do! Well, at least for that period maybe you could feel something similar to some other realms in Dwilight ;D  Anyway I was talking about your Falkirkian affairs. A pitty, though; you seemed such a nice couple...

Big boys tricked by the Moot? The world is going crazy... Problem solved anyway, right?

It's a GM who runs the Zuma, not a Dev as far as I am aware.

And Falkirk and Aurvandil are a good couple. As Aurvandil is master at reconciling seemingly contradictory beliefs and notions and making them work, I am sure we can form an excellent partnership with Falkirk, one that will more than likely involve us frequently warring however. Part of the reason why I gave the Averothoi Madina as the notion that they'd shape up to be a worthy opponent in future wars based upon their defence of Valkyrja and their epically successful campaign against Astrum. An enemy worthy of defeating, in Mendicant's eyes.

Stabbity

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Re: The Marrocidenian war
« Reply #723: November 22, 2012, 09:27:27 PM »
We're worse than that.

We're Englishmen pretending to be French.

Goddamns trying to ribbit. Now I have seen everything.
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Lychaon

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Re: The Marrocidenian war
« Reply #724: November 22, 2012, 09:40:44 PM »
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It's a GM who runs the Zuma, not a Dev as far as I am aware.

I didn't know that, my fault.

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War protests, brought Aurvandil to its knees in a day. We had to take the entire time since the Provincia's founding to now just to stabilise, and even then we've just lost another two regions to revolt. And Aurvandil doesn't really do raids, it goes against the way we conduct war. We march with as fuller force as possible and look to fight the enemy in battle. We rarely march without the full panoply of our four armies arrayed and rarely with the intent for anything but victory against the enemy in battle. We seek the glory of battle more than we seek the path to victory. And when we do defeat our enemies, we never sack or raid, the only time we have done that was the destruction of Madina, otherwise as with regions like Rettleville we wiped out all fortifications, take the gold and leave.

Very honourable indeed. But well, maths sometimes help anyway. Looking to fight the enemy in battle in a proportion of 1200 to 250 like the recent battle in Paisland is quite a detail; a huge victory, but a lot of glory on that? Anyway, if you have a huge army and panoply, it would be silly not to use it. But I can understand why you take so long to bring back normality to your revolted lands if you don't like to set battle in a proportion inferior to 5 - 1.

"How to invade lands", page 34, paragraph 2: "If you want to set a Provincia di Fiorenza in enemy territory, don't burn raid it after blowing them away"  ;D  I'm just kidding.

NoblesseChevaleresque

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Re: The Marrocidenian war
« Reply #725: November 22, 2012, 09:45:34 PM »
I didn't know that, my fault.

Very honourable indeed. But well, maths sometimes help anyway. Looking to fight the enemy in battle in a proportion of 1200 to 250 like the recent battle in Paisland is quite a detail; a huge victory, but a lot of glory on that? Anyway, if you have a huge army and panoply, it would be silly not to use it. But I can understand why you take so long to bring back normality to your revolted lands if you don't like to set battle in a proportion inferior to 5 - 1.

"How to invade lands", page 34, paragraph 2: "If you want to set a Provincia di Fiorenza in enemy territory, don't burn raid it after blowing them away"  ;D  I'm just kidding.

I am aware of the issues in that. Though not so long ago Terran was heading an allied army of 40,000 C.S.

Thus, why I offered Suffete Brackern the chance to fight a battle where Aurvandil caps its number of soldiers and combat strength to a limit of his choosing. So as to give both Barca and Aurvandil the chance to have a fair battle to see which soldiery is superior, this was the cornerstone of our plans for peace, so Barca could accept peace with honour and not be seen as a defeated, whipped foe.

Lychaon

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Re: The Marrocidenian war
« Reply #726: November 22, 2012, 11:01:22 PM »
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I am aware of the issues in that. Though not so long ago Terran was heading an allied army of 40,000 C.S.

Those should have been good times. I wonder why didn't they head south.

You have to understand why Lord Brackern is a little "stubborn" about this matter. Basically you're offering him some kind of consolation candy. By allowing him to decide the size of the belligerent armies you think you are giving an honourable chance to Barca to finish this war. If Barca loses, I assume you would theoretically stop the hostilities (I guess setting some favourable to Aurvandil neutrality rules, like those we've seen in the D'Haran case), and wouldn't try to invade our lands.

If Barca wins, would you sign and respect the "Treaty for expansion to unclaimed lands"? I don't think so. And by your strength you've acquired the right to change your mind whenever you want, and create exceptions to the rules set.

There's no honourable solution for Barca in this offer. Accepting means to be seen as a defeated and impotent nation pledged to the game of Aurvandil. Not accepting means to face what would probably be the invasion and maybe the destruction of all that Barcan nobles have constructed. It could be seen as an easy choice, but please don't talk about honour.

By the way you speak I would say your character is King Mendicant. It's been a nice conversation, NoblesseChevaleresque. It's late, so maybe we read each other tomorrow.

Regards.

Chenier

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Re: The Marrocidenian war
« Reply #727: November 23, 2012, 12:30:08 AM »
Well to be fair to D'Hara, I think your complaints and experiences were with a different administration ruling D'Hara, I never had any problems with the old Administrations under Gornak and Machiavel (If you discount the whole... war declaring thing, but that's bridge under the water [Edit: Water under the bridge >. >]).

And D'Hara have been a bit too impetuous and tried to bite of too much, it's why others realm have realised not to trust the word of D'Hara because there isn't "anything true whatsoever" in their dealings, as it was put to Mendicant. As I keep saying, people have sort of noticed their attempts to play both sides of the war and then pander to the neutrals and it hasn't done them any favours. The good name of D'Hara is pretty much gone.

You imagine agreements were made when nothing was agreed upon. D'Hara feels no obligation whatsoever to uphold something that was proposed but never agreed upon. As none should. I'd say Glaumring had the same problem.

If the "good name of D'Hara" is gone, that's quite fine with D'Harans, because they don't care about what Aurvandil thinks of them anymore. Our pride could only stand so much of Mendicant's condescendance.
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Chenier

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Re: The Marrocidenian war
« Reply #728: November 23, 2012, 12:34:54 AM »
Thank you for your understanding. All I want is for people to realize nothing is one sided in war and diplomacy and I dont like how people have decided to push me under the bus just to get rid of me politically. I wont go out like that.

You say D'Hara threw you under the bus, but Machiavel NEVER stated that he would help you in any way should you attack Kabrinskia and Astrum.

As Lychaon guessed, we were too concerned about Luria Nova, and the Lurias in general. You just incorrectly assumed that you could pull D'Hara into a war you'd start. We'd have liked to fight against Kabrinskia, had we not considered it suicide, but we never would have went along against Astrum anyways. And I have no idea what gave you the impression we would.
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NoblesseChevaleresque

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Re: The Marrocidenian war
« Reply #729: November 23, 2012, 12:55:14 AM »
Those should have been good times. I wonder why didn't they head south.

You have to understand why Lord Brackern is a little "stubborn" about this matter. Basically you're offering him some kind of consolation candy. By allowing him to decide the size of the belligerent armies you think you are giving an honourable chance to Barca to finish this war. If Barca loses, I assume you would theoretically stop the hostilities (I guess setting some favourable to Aurvandil neutrality rules, like those we've seen in the D'Haran case), and wouldn't try to invade our lands.

If Barca wins, would you sign and respect the "Treaty for expansion to unclaimed lands"? I don't think so. And by your strength you've acquired the right to change your mind whenever you want, and create exceptions to the rules set.

There's no honourable solution for Barca in this offer. Accepting means to be seen as a defeated and impotent nation pledged to the game of Aurvandil. Not accepting means to face what would probably be the invasion and maybe the destruction of all that Barcan nobles have constructed. It could be seen as an easy choice, but please don't talk about honour.

By the way you speak I would say your character is King Mendicant. It's been a nice conversation, NoblesseChevaleresque. It's late, so maybe we read each other tomorrow.

Regards.

They couldn't do anything because their army revolted from under them due to the extreme distance from the north to the south, a saving grace against the hideous power Sea Travel gave S.A. in any given circumstance.

Don't get me wrong, the hostilities between Barca and Aurvandil had already ended, at least on the Aurvandilan part. I made it clear we had achieved satisfaction in having punished their Ambassador for his actions and having defended our and honour from his slights. The offer to continue hostilities on Barca was so that Barca could seek satisfaction over the quite swift attack on Rettleville. The battle wasn't a means to decide the terms, of which I pretty much already told Barca they are to present what terms they like, it was perfectly in Barca's court to allow them to extract terms they wanted and to gain a peace treaty to their satisfaction, Aurvandil has no interest in dominating, humiliating or reigning over Barca.

You imagine agreements were made when nothing was agreed upon. D'Hara feels no obligation whatsoever to uphold something that was proposed but never agreed upon. As none should. I'd say Glaumring had the same problem.

If the "good name of D'Hara" is gone, that's quite fine with D'Harans, because they don't care about what Aurvandil thinks of them anymore. Our pride could only stand so much of Mendicant's condescendance.

I don't "imagine agreements", I do however take note whenever D'Hara refuses to agree to something.

And I'm sure D'Hara are fine with their reputation, after all it doesn't matter how other people perceive you so long as it is a means to an end, right? So long as Sanguis Astroism will defend you and empower you it doesn't matter what level you lower yourself to so long as you're happy with it. And I wasn't talking about how Aurvandil thinks of you, but rather other realms based on my correspondences with them.

And if you think Mendicant was condescending, then you don't realise the fact D'Hara was utterly beaten in war with Aurvandil standing victorious. As much as Mendicant tried to put you on an even footing, as equals D'Hara wouldn't have it, nor would you accept the fact you fought a war and lost it and still acted as though you had a right for things to go back to the way they were originally, with no consequence so long as you stuck your head in the sand and demanded there be no consequences for your actions.


Glaumring the Fox

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Re: The Marrocidenian war
« Reply #730: November 23, 2012, 01:01:43 AM »
You say D'Hara threw you under the bus, but Machiavel NEVER stated that he would help you in any way should you attack Kabrinskia and Astrum.

As Lychaon guessed, we were too concerned about Luria Nova, and the Lurias in general. You just incorrectly assumed that you could pull D'Hara into a war you'd start. We'd have liked to fight against Kabrinskia, had we not considered it suicide, but we never would have went along against Astrum anyways. And I have no idea what gave you the impression we would.

Interestingly enough our alliance was forged to protect you from Kabrinskian aggression. When it came down to it, right or wrong. You both decided to throw an ally under the bus. Instead we could have stood as one and been stronger now than anytime ever. Shortsighted policies , shortsighted strategy. Asylon went above and beyond the call of duty to take the brunt of the attacks and fight a war both of you combined couldnt even muster an ounce of loyalty, bravery and balls to fight against.

Jesus... Are we still talking about this...
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Penchant

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Re: The Marrocidenian war
« Reply #731: November 23, 2012, 01:09:11 AM »
Interestingly enough our alliance was forged to protect you from Kabrinskian aggression. When it came down to it, right or wrong. You both decided to throw an ally under the bus. Instead we could have stood as one and been stronger now than anytime ever. Shortsighted policies , shortsighted strategy. Asylon went above and beyond the call of duty to take the brunt of the attacks and fight a war both of you combined couldnt even muster an ounce of loyalty, bravery and balls to fight against.

Jesus... Are we still talking about this...
Yes, we are still talking about this because your thick skull can't understand it. Throw you under a bus implies we got you in trouble with the realms you warred. You started it by your aggression and if we had helped you the moot would be in worse condition than we are now. We would have no SA help and we would have been attacked from Aurvandil while warring them as your war ended while we were fighting which would have meant we would have been screwed. Maybe the war somehow helped your realm even though you are still recovering from it but it sure wouldn't have helped the moot and quit blaming us for the war you extended to a much more extreme way than we ever wanted.
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Glaumring the Fox

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Re: The Marrocidenian war
« Reply #732: November 23, 2012, 01:24:33 AM »
Asylon would have protected, provided troops and you wouldnt need foreigners to help you fight a war. We'd have shared the newly conquered Kabrinskian lands, had a large well maintained army and been united , motivated and strong.

Now you have foreigners in your throne room, no help from Asylon, and an army that is suited for monster hunting. The Barcans are smashed, Terran does all the heavy lifting itself and you are now pawns of the north and south. Asylon once had a huge army, vibrant economy cannot help at all.

And this my frustration, even though what I did was wrong in parts at the time it seemed right and the best way to achieve several long term goals if only we cooperated and stood strong. Your view was short sighted, insular and without vision.

You did not trust my vision, I can understand that. One day it will become clear to you how defining the last war was to the moots long term future and you will wish that you had chosen to stand strong in those times instead of division.

We live lives in beautiful lies...

Chenier

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Re: The Marrocidenian war
« Reply #733: November 23, 2012, 01:28:04 AM »
Interestingly enough our alliance was forged to protect you from Kabrinskian aggression. When it came down to it, right or wrong. You both decided to throw an ally under the bus. Instead we could have stood as one and been stronger now than anytime ever. Shortsighted policies , shortsighted strategy. Asylon went above and beyond the call of duty to take the brunt of the attacks and fight a war both of you combined couldnt even muster an ounce of loyalty, bravery and balls to fight against.

Jesus... Are we still talking about this...

Sure, we could have begun a huge war with SA, and gotten backstabbed by the Lurias and Aurvandil. We'd be in such a GREAT position right now. You are right, we totally should have declared war on Astrum. What on earth were we thinking?
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Indirik

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Re: The Marrocidenian war
« Reply #734: November 23, 2012, 02:07:22 AM »
Damn, that pumpkin pie was good!
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