The Marrocidenian war

[Vellos]

I'm pretty sure you guys claimed that would NEVER happen, despite Madina's ample warnings.

No, Barca claimed it would never happen, D'Hara claimed it wasn't expedient to intervene at the time, and Terran didn't get the war we wanted.

[MediumTedium]

Why don't you guys go back to begging SA to march down with their glorious army and fight your war for you.

[Perth]

Why don't you guys go back to begging SA to march down with their glorious army and fight your war for you.

You think we've stopped doing that?

[Lychaon]

Why don't you guys go back to begging SA to march down with their glorious army and fight your war for you.

Maybe for a different reason, but they are also in war with Aurvandil. It would be like the best birthday parties: a lot of different people that don't know each others but interact kindly by sharing the same joy. 

[Chenier]

I'm pretty sure you guys claimed that would NEVER happen, despite Madina's ample warnings.

Meh, many people are happy that Madina got destroyed.

[Nosferatus]

Meh, many people are happy that Madina got destroyed.

haha i geuss, that still doesn't change the fact that Barca was very very naive to trust Aurvendil 'n support them.
I laughed hard when i heard of Aurvendil attacking them.

[Chenier]

haha i geuss, that still doesn't change the fact that Barca was very very naive to trust Aurvendil 'n support them.
I laughed hard when i heard of Aurvendil attacking them.

Indeed, perhaps we shoulda destroyed Aurvandil, and then Madina ourselves.

Wouldn't mind seeing a new Madina now, just felt like they had to suffer a little.

[Nosferatus]

Wouldn't mind seeing a new Madina now, just felt like they had to suffer a little.

Why?
i must agree that this is probably more fun though.
It gave me a great rp oportunity.

[Vellos]

Indeed, perhaps we shoulda destroyed Aurvandil,

Hate to say I told you so, but...

Scratch that, I LOVE to say I told you so.

I told you so.

[NoblesseChevaleresque]

Raid Terran? You were too weak to strike any of their cities, and were eventually forced to retreat without any significant damage. Secure Paisland? You've already lost it. Antagonize D'Hara? We've killed the squatters and retaken our city, eliminated your flag from our old lands.

But you can chant it off as an amazing victorious campaign if you wish.

We raided where we pleased.

We secured Paisland for it's intended purpose, and abandoned it when it became inconvenient, which if you haven't noticed is how Aurvandil operates in the north, we take the regions then ditch them once they have served a purpose, they aren't worth a defence or the military resources to hold. This is how we have always functioned in the north as you should have noticed, we just turn up north and you consistently abandon the regions defence which means we can take them if we want them then abandon them without consequence, you won't hold them against us and we don't need to keep them to hold them against you on a long term basis. As for Paisland, well it has served a great roleplay purpose, not that that is anything to do with D'Hara, and it gave us a great laugh to see Iashalur spectacularly fail to attack it, and D'Hara to actually flee around the region to take over Maeotis, rather than to dare to fight Matharis, which we determined was a great cause of shame to your armies.

As for an amazing victorious campaign? Are you being deliberately dense? In my previous post I made it clear I thought the entire campaign was a limp affair that achieved little, but of course you'd have to ignore that otherwise you wouldn't be able to make arsey remarks to try and belittle my post.

You could get peace by stepping down, renouncing your whole culture, converting to an extant religion, executing your current council, and swearing to become a republic.

Cheers!

It'll be faster and easier to rogue Terran, just saying.

You forgot ceding stolen lands back to Barca, plus an extra as compensation, and a quarterly tribute.

All of that together would start appearing as reasonable.

All of that was previously offered, and it was refused in favour of war, so you know.

You had your chance and you turned your nose up at the offer.

Indeed, perhaps we shoulda destroyed Aurvandil, and then Madina ourselves.

Wouldn't mind seeing a new Madina now, just felt like they had to suffer a little.

I doubt D'Hara would have been man enough to make a difference in the Madina war, all of your previous wars assert such. D'Hara can't fight, even now they are spectacularly failing to actually... war Aurvandil despite the fact we give you ample opportunity when we spend weeks refitting and holding banquets in Candiels or running lack lustre take overs in our rogue lands.

[Lychaon]

All of that was previously offered, and it was refused in favour of war, so you know.

You had your chance and you turned your nose up at the offer.

Do you mean that you offered Barca to give back Gallaecia, Kydonia and Celtiberia? I'd like to know a little bit more about that as I find it something less than probable. I won't even mention the quarterly tribute... (seriously you offered it too?) I don't know why but I guess there's something missing here, I resist the idea of the nobles of Aurvandil returning Barca these regions.

C'mon, even the "Grandiose et Magnifique Institution pour la Création des Cartographies Aurvandiliennes" had artistically painted its domain comprising these regions! 

[Vellos]

Do you mean that you offered Barca to give back Gallaecia, Kydonia and Celtiberia? I'd like to know a little bit more about that as I find it something less than probable. I won't even mention the quarterly tribute... (seriously you offered it too?) I don't know why but I guess there's something missing here, I resist the idea of the nobles of Aurvandil returning Barca these regions.

C'mon, even the "Grandiose et Magnifique Institution pour la Création des Cartographies Aurvandiliennes" had artistically painted its domain comprising these regions! 

He offered to return them, as I recall, provided that Barca made unspecified and vague internal changes: he refused to give any suggestions about what such changes would be. They were widely interpreted in the Moot as being reform to a monarchy, abandonment of the Moot, and special legal relationships with Aurvandi nobles and Aurvandil itself. When we tried to figure out if that was what Mendicant actually wanted, our perception was that he dodged the question.

He, the player, has asserted many times that we misunderstood what was going on. And that may be the case, he may be right; but our perception of it was that he wanted to make Barca a vassal state and disassemble the Moot. Whether our perception was "true" or not depends on which story you believe; and frankly both our stories have some big holes in them.

[NoblesseChevaleresque]

Do you mean that you offered Barca to give back Gallaecia, Kydonia and Celtiberia? I'd like to know a little bit more about that as I find it something less than probable. I won't even mention the quarterly tribute... (seriously you offered it too?) I don't know why but I guess there's something missing here, I resist the idea of the nobles of Aurvandil returning Barca these regions.

C'mon, even the "Grandiose et Magnifique Institution pour la Création des Cartographies Aurvandiliennes" had artistically painted its domain comprising these regions! 

Oh well the return of the regions and the tribute was heavily implied when Mendicant made it clear he would give Barca whatever they wanted in reason to get a peace they're happy about and redresses the damage inflicted upon their regions and their honour in war. And Aurvandil loves to flaunt its gold and how better than by being generous to a poor third world realm like Barca? I know for certain Mendicant mentioned these specifically to one or two people, I can't remember who however. But it was considered that we insisted upon rebuilding their fortifications personally until we decided that would have been too patronising.

Yes, well we were happy to give up the regions in a way, to give them away is to deny their worth and to thus, extol the value of our own lands and our inherent wealth. That is until food production got changed and most of our regions became god awful producers of barely anything except for the northern marches (Gallaecia, Kydonia and Celtiberia).

And we had drawn those regions to the map, because it looked better geographically, it sort of... completed the peninsula if you look at it.

He offered to return them, as I recall, provided that Barca made unspecified and vague internal changes: he refused to give any suggestions about what such changes would be. They were widely interpreted in the Moot as being reform to a monarchy, abandonment of the Moot, and special legal relationships with Aurvandi nobles and Aurvandil itself. When we tried to figure out if that was what Mendicant actually wanted, our perception was that he dodged the question.

He, the player, has asserted many times that we misunderstood what was going on. And that may be the case, he may be right; but our perception of it was that he wanted to make Barca a vassal state and disassemble the Moot. Whether our perception was "true" or not depends on which story you believe; and frankly both our stories have some big holes in them.

We never wanted Barca to become a monarchy, or leave the Moot and I'm sure Mendicant never even implied or suggested anything to give that impression. But I imagine peoples imaginations run wild in the Moot. What we wanted was for Barca to do something about the corruption in their Republic, and a corrupt republic has no right to become a Monarchy in Mendicant's eyes, it would sully Monarchism.

I considered asking Barca to become a vassal state, but we considered it to be an insult to Aurvandil. Aurvandil fights alone and needs no vassal states, anything less implies a weakness, to say we need a realm to support us is to imply we need help and that would shame our pride and our honour.

[Lychaon]

Well, now we've got the two versions of the story. One of them, short on details and concise; the other one... Noblesse, be nice and don't talk just for once directly from Mendicant's mouth, for non English-speakers sake, would you? 

Oh well the return of the regions and the tribute was heavily implied when Mendicant made it clear he would give Barca whatever they wanted in reason to get a peace they're happy about and redresses the damage inflicted upon their regions and their honour in war. And Aurvandil loves to flaunt its gold and how better than by being generous to a poor third world realm like Barca? I know for certain Mendicant mentioned these specifically to one or two people, I can't remember who however. But it was considered that we insisted upon rebuilding their fortifications personally until we decided that would have been too patronising.

Dear... that really touched me. How in the world such altruistic and philanthropist person becomes an absolute monarch? That's indeed a great deed and explains the nature of your character's name. In fact, maybe you should call him Mendiant ("Beggar" in French) as it's clear you find virtue in spreading gold for "poor third world realms". Real world would be a better place if there would be more Aurvandils and Mendicants around. 

Yes, well we were happy to give up the regions in a way, to give them away is to deny their worth and to thus, extol the value of our own lands. That is until food production got changed and most of our regions became god awful producers of barely anything except for the northern marches (Gallaecia, Kydonia and Celtiberia).

And we had drawn those regions to the map, because it looked better geographically, it sort of... completed the peninsula if you look at it.

So that means you... would have given them back or not? If your own regions were unable to feed the "Grandiose Armée", it would be inconvenient to return them to their original owners I guess. Was it the case? Hmm, it's curious how the worth of some regions can change so drastically. But I agree with you, the skilled Aurvandilian cartographers showed everyone in Dwilight a very interesting vision of its geography. How did you manage to teach them how to use Paint so nicely?

We never wanted Barca to become a monarchy, or leave the Moot and I'm sure Mendicant never even implied or suggested anything to give that impression. But I imagine peoples imaginations run wild in the Moot. What we wanted was for Barca to do something about the corruption in their Republic, and a corrupt republic has no right to become a Monarchy in Mendicant's eyes, it would sully Monarchism.

I considered asking Barca to become a vassal state, but we considered it to be an insult to Aurvandil. Aurvandil fights alone and needs no vassal states, anything less implies a weakness, to say we need a realm to support us is to imply we need help and that would shame us.

So, apart from the renewed value of the marches in the Mendicontinent, the other condition was for Barca to solve the corruption issues? And that is because... you dislike corruption wherever it comes up? Moreover, maybe to be completely accurate to your comment about vassals and self-sufficiency, we shouldn't see any green sign in Aurvandil diplomatic relations. Oh well, maybe you are in peace with other realms just to spread generosity all over Dwilight. 

I have to say that I can't decide between both opinions yet. Sincerely, as Vellos said, both of the stories have got huge holes. I'd really like to know a little bit more about the corruption in Barca in that times, if someone could kindly tell me more about it. Thanks in advance.

[Penchant]

So what was so corrupt about Barca? I have heard plenty of times from you that they are corrupt but never how they are corrupt. It's like if you were an employer and told an employee, "Look at all these problems with you. If you don't want to be fired you better fix them." They have no idea what is wrong them in your eyes and thus no way to fix whatever is supposedly wrong.