The Marrocidenian war

[Penchant]

Isnt Orthodox Astroism the religion of Aurvandiil now?

I believe it to be the Cult of Reason actually.

[MediumTedium]

I believe it to be the Cult of Reason actually.

Yep it seems Cult of Reason will be Aurvandils religion. I wonder what effects will Cult of Reason have on OA.

[Chenier]

Well no one really liked Madina is what I hear. The treaty should of been something like, when a clear victory of the war has been established Aurvandil must give back the city.

You can look it up to confirm, but I'm pretty sure it did.

And yea, nobody liked Madina. They refused until the very end to promise not to invade D'Hara again for Paisly. By then, it was too late. Had they done so when the war broke out, Aurvandil would have been destroyed quickly.

[Phellan]

You can look it up to confirm, but I'm pretty sure it did.

And yea, nobody liked Madina. They refused until the very end to promise not to invade D'Hara again for Paisly. By then, it was too late. Had they done so when the war broke out, Aurvandil would have been destroyed quickly.

I don't even remember anyone who was on the Lord's Council that wanted to take Paisly after the Capital was moved to the Tower.   Our issue was Barca, never Paisly.   And then Barca supporting Aurvandil - well, at least that turned out just like Madina said it would. . . pretty sure Vallyn flat up told the Moot that Aurvandil would betray them and keep the city.

[NoblesseChevaleresque]

Evanburg is a townsland, not a city.

And well to be fair, Vallyn was talking out of his arse when he said that. Unless he actually predicted the defection of three lords, the subsequent diplomatic slight by Julius and the declaration of war. His assertion was baseless.

[Lychaon]

Evanburg is a townsland, not a city.

And well to be fair, Vallyn was talking out of his arse when he said that. Unless he actually predicted the defection of three lords, the subsequent diplomatic slight by Julius and the declaration of war. His assertion was baseless.

"Diplomatic slight"? Shameless Aurvandilians... 

Indeed a diplomatic slight from Aurvandilian side. I guess the change of mind of Aurvandil regarding relations with Barca would have been different if those nobles wouldn't have switched carrying their regions with them.

[Phellan]

Evanburg is a townsland, not a city.

And well to be fair, Vallyn was talking out of his arse when he said that. Unless he actually predicted the defection of three lords, the subsequent diplomatic slight by Julius and the declaration of war. His assertion was baseless.

No - he just claimed that Aurvandil would not be a friend of the Moot's at the end of the day.  And I think it would be safe to say that has passed.

Of course he didn't have any proof - other than the fact that Aurvandil was formed by defecting nobles, so clearly they were traitors.  And you can't trust a traitor.

[Chenier]

No - he just claimed that Aurvandil would not be a friend of the Moot's at the end of the day.  And I think it would be safe to say that has passed.

Of course he didn't have any proof - other than the fact that Aurvandil was formed by defecting nobles, so clearly they were traitors.  And you can't trust a traitor.

Yea, but then again: would Madina have been a friend at the end of the day?

Madina had griefed us for too long. Yes, we may have Aurvandil to worry about now, but at least we got closure about Madninian "claims" to what was then our capital. The idea wasn't that Aurvandil would be our friend forever, but that we'd take care of them in due time as well.

I don't even remember anyone who was on the Lord's Council that wanted to take Paisly after the Capital was moved to the Tower.   Our issue was Barca, never Paisly.   And then Barca supporting Aurvandil - well, at least that turned out just like Madina said it would. . . pretty sure Vallyn flat up told the Moot that Aurvandil would betray them and keep the city.

Whether people wanted it or not, your ruler, until VERY late in the conflict (like, until you were obviously doomed and beyond saving to everyone's eyes but your own) refused to promise not to ever let such a war erupt again. There might not have been any plans, but he refused to curtail the "rights" of his nobles to "uphold their claims", and that this was not a promise a Madinian ruler could legally make. Which honestly quite undermined the later promise and pissed off some D'Harans more than anything.

And as I said above, the idea was never that Aurvandil would never betray us. We were just sick of Madina, and did not consider that Aurvandil or Madina were  our sole options for who would reside to our South.

[Phellan]

Yea, but then again: would Madina have been a friend at the end of the day?

Madina had griefed us for too long. Yes, we may have Aurvandil to worry about now, but at least we got closure about Madninian "claims" to what was then our capital. The idea wasn't that Aurvandil would be our friend forever, but that we'd take care of them in due time as well.

Whether people wanted it or not, your ruler, until VERY late in the conflict (like, until you were obviously doomed and beyond saving to everyone's eyes but your own) refused to promise not to ever let such a war erupt again. There might not have been any plans, but he refused to curtail the "rights" of his nobles to "uphold their claims", and that this was not a promise a Madinian ruler could legally make. Which honestly quite undermined the later promise and pissed off some D'Harans more than anything.

And as I said above, the idea was never that Aurvandil would never betray us. We were just sick of Madina, and did not consider that Aurvandil or Madina were  our sole options for who would reside to our South.

Oh I don't disagree - the format for Madinan Council of Lords was a pain to deal with IC.    Vallyn himself saw more value in D'Hara as a good trading partner (we needed to send all that food somewhere), but convincing some of the Lords of that matter was almost a dead end.  Especially considering the established RP's on the importance of the book of claims.    Really as Doge I was more interested in securing D'Hara and Terran as allies but the long standing animosity was obviously an issue - plus the fact you wanted food prices at a certain level and the Lord who actually *controlled* that food. . . would not change his stance.    Again - in-fighting in Madina was three quarters of our fun (and really, caused its demise unfortunately).

Major issue with being the Doge (or Lord Admiral) was that almost *all* the political power in Madina resided with the Council of Lords, the Doge was the head of the Council but had no authority to force something onto the Lords as they were all "equals".   Awesome for RP and keeping things active in the Realm - a nightmare to deal with when trying to convince one Lord to do something he didn't want to (or more so, needed to be convince IC why his stubborn character should).

Oh I know - OOC I think it was a devil you know vs devil you don't option.   For D'Hara there was no incentive to go either way and Madina failed to unify and provide a concrete reason for their long-time foe to help them.   Really expecting you to come help us *would* be unreasonable since Madina for a long time saw D'Hara as our primary foe (I mean really, you were the only people we could reasonably go after who weren't Fissoans).

I think the war was great fun ^.^  And as lead to this war, which is good times as well.   Vallyn. . .he might be a little angry with Aurvandil though

[Vellos]

Yea, but then again: would Madina have been a friend at the end of the day?

Madina had griefed us for too long. Yes, we may have Aurvandil to worry about now, but at least we got closure about Madninian "claims" to what was then our capital. The idea wasn't that Aurvandil would be our friend forever, but that we'd take care of them in due time as well.

Whether people wanted it or not, your ruler, until VERY late in the conflict (like, until you were obviously doomed and beyond saving to everyone's eyes but your own) refused to promise not to ever let such a war erupt again. There might not have been any plans, but he refused to curtail the "rights" of his nobles to "uphold their claims", and that this was not a promise a Madinian ruler could legally make. Which honestly quite undermined the later promise and pissed off some D'Harans more than anything.

And as I said above, the idea was never that Aurvandil would never betray us. We were just sick of Madina, and did not consider that Aurvandil or Madina were  our sole options for who would reside to our South.

As a member of the pro-Madina faction, Hireshmont argued Madina was the lesser of two evils– and certainly an impotent foe, as repeated defenses of Paisly demonstrated.

And Hireshmont is feeling very vindicated these days.

The bit about Madinian constitutional limitations was interesting though. Reason 947 why Moot realms have a preoccupation with forms of government.

[Nosferatus]

it was really cool to read that reply from Phellan on his experience as a government member in Madina, haha.
that was exactly what i hoped to achieve with a !@#$ed up goverment system like madinas system.

There where no laws forcing anyone to make consesion about things or work 'together' as a 'realm' (unless a state of emergency was declared, like the roman dictator the Admiral would finally become a real general and only in the situation Madina would be a real nation).
There where however laws in place that allows you to pratically kill anyone who you would have a problem with(not that it happened like that)

Seeing Madina as a realm was the bigest misunderstand of Madina i think.
It was more a nation in the sense that there lack of nation binds them and agree that this kind of feudal liberty is what is the norm for good and just.
It was almost more of a religion then something else

[Phellan]

it was really cool to read that reply from Phellan on his experience as a government member in Madina, haha.
that was exactly what i hoped to achieve with a !@#$ed up goverment system like madinas system.

There where no laws forcing anyone to make consesion about things or work 'together' as a 'realm' (unless a state of emergency was declared, like the roman dictator the Admiral would finally become a real general and only in the situation Madina would be a real nation).
There where however laws in place that allows you to pratically kill anyone who you would have a problem with(not that it happened like that)

Seeing Madina as a realm was the bigest misunderstand of Madina i think.
It was more a nation in the sense that there lack of nation binds them and agree that this kind of feudal liberty is what is the norm for good and just.
It was almost more of a religion then something else

True - it was more a fight most days to get the Lords to agree to a plan, than it was to get another nation to support it.

I agree with Vellos - Madina was never a threat because it was always too busy with internal politic's and rivalries to look outside its own borders for the most part.   It had to be - we were so far from everyone else that we never had a chance to really focus on external threats (except for monsters until Tom fine tuned them down).

Most Realm politics are boring - everyone follows the Dukes or Ruler and just hobbles along as a unified group.   In Madina you had to negotiate backroom deals with Lords just to get them to agree with you in the Lords' Council.

[Chenier]

D'Hara's house of lords is quite jealous and very powerful, but we also have a history of very strong rulers, despite the move to the republic. As long as he gets some kind of support from the lords, rulers have been known to force other lords to do many things other rulers could never dream of.

As for Madina being a lesser threat... I see no reason to chose one or the other, I'd have been content to see both gone. And in due time...

And we "got" Madina. But there's no way to contact dukes directly. And we didn't like dealing with that kind of inept government system.

[Galvez]

I don't even remember anyone who was on the Lord's Council that wanted to take Paisly after the Capital was moved to the Tower.   Our issue was Barca, never Paisly.   And then Barca supporting Aurvandil - well, at least that turned out just like Madina said it would. . . pretty sure Vallyn flat up told the Moot that Aurvandil would betray them and keep the city.

I remember that Vallyn and Julius couldn't get along. Something that greatly irritated Hireshmont to hear Julius speak as he did. Because Julius didn't liked Madina and Vallyn, we prevented the 'Moot to cross Barca to attack Aurvandil while we gave them Evanburg in fief. This all didn't turned out the way we hoped for, mostly because Aurvandil grew stronger than the 'Moot.

Evanburg is a townsland, not a city.

And well to be fair, Vallyn was talking out of his arse when he said that. Unless he actually predicted the defection of three lords, the subsequent diplomatic slight by Julius and the declaration of war. His assertion was baseless.

It were not the 'diplomatic slights' from Julius which caused this war. When I arrived in Candiels, I wasn't received as warmly as the first time. And from the first moment until the end of Julius and Mendicant's negotiation, Mendicant twisted Julius' words and took insult at the slightest of things. That while Julius was enduring insults after insults. It was soo clear that Mendicant had zero intention of ever handing back Barca's region, and eventually blamed my 'insults' for the war that followed. It was shameless, but I am loving the action.

[MediumTedium]

Terran ruler just quit the game?! Any news about that? Its sad when players leaves the game but oh well what can you do. I wonder who will take his place.