Population damage and repair

[Uzamaki]

Rejected for multiple reasons.

One, we already consider peace in calculating the population growth rates. Two, your extrapolation is wrong because growth is exponential, depending on the current population, so a larger city will also grow faster (in absolute numbers).

Three, the real problem that might need fixing is stuff only coming "online" at certain amounts of production, which is a useful shortcut but not terribly realistic for everything.

The first reason, that's great! Perhaps it could be increased to have more tangible effects?

Second, I know that it is. However, for both larger and smaller cities, that growth is still not enough. It still takes far too long for the peace cycle to end and a new war cycle to begin.

Not sure about three, because even when certain things become 'online' if their infrastructure still takes damage from the decreased production caused by population reduction, it doesn't really help too much.

EDIT: Perhaps I didn't make this clear enough in my request. This rebuilding problem is both a perception problem and a game problem. Perception-wise, people are getting bored and frustrated and if we just say 'well, it's already growing' that isn't going to help. And then I have already listed the benefits for the game if this were to be added.

[vonGenf]

We aren't prepared, and we have been a realm for a year and had Oroya for eight months. Over six months since we increased to 10 regions, I believe. Therefore, in a roundabout way of doing things, by helping the peace cycle move faster, we can get to the war cycle once again(as both the real world and the game world go in cycles of mass war and mass peace, with a few shades of grey in between).

Ashforth is basically at full population.

Are you saying that if Oroya didn't exist, then you would consider Nivemus ready to fight?

Then how exactly is a depopulated Oroya reducing your ability ot fight?

[Uzamaki]

Ashforth is basically at full population.

Are you saying that if Oroya didn't exist, then you would consider Nivemus ready to fight?

Then how exactly is a depopulated Oroya reducing your ability ot fight?

Ashforth was never attacked.

While that hypothetical question is meaningless since it is asking me to ponder 'yeah but if...', I will give it a go. If Nivemus didn't have Oroya, we would be much weaker. Therefore, yes, as a weaker realm, I would have to be much more careful and much more painstaking in setting up a war and deciding which wars I would join.

[vonGenf]

While that hypothetical question is meaningless since it is asking me to ponder 'yeah but if...', I will give it a go. If Nivemus didn't have Oroya, we would be much weaker. Therefore, yes, as a weaker realm, I would have to be much more careful and much more painstaking in setting up a war and deciding which wars I would join.

Oh, of course. I'm not saying you should run headless into the first war that presents itself. Every realm must be careful in deciding which war they will join, or they'll find themselves weaker after it than before. But not all realms are equal, and that is the normal state of the game.

A realm always finds itself in the situation it is currently in. The reason you are wary of war at the moment is because you know that if you remain at peace, you will be stronger three months down the road, therefore your baseline for going to war is higher than a realm which will find itself unchanged if it does nothing. However your ability to go to war is not impaired, it is at a certain level and that's it. Find an objective worthy enough and you will be able to go to war.

Said another way, you currently have a city and a half. It seems you would feel better if you had two cities. Do you know what is a fast way to get a second city, faster than waiting for Oroya to repopulate?

Invade one.

[Uzamaki]

Oh, of course. I'm not saying you should run headless into the first war that presents itself. Every realm must be careful in deciding which war they will join, or they'll find themselves weaker after it than before. But not all realms are equal, and that is the normal state of the game.

A realm always finds itself in the situation it is currently in. The reason you are wary of war at the moment is because you know that if you remain at peace, you will be stronger three months down the road, therefore your baseline for going to war is higher than a realm which will find itself unchanged if it does nothing. However your ability to go to war is not impaired, it is at a certain level and that's it. Find an objective worthy enough and you will be able to go to war.

Said another way, you currently have a city and a half. It seems you would feel better if you had two cities. Do you know what is a fast way to get a second city, faster than waiting for Oroya to repopulate?

Invade one.

While that is true, in a sense, it is also impractical considering all the other realms around us, with the exception of one, are stronger than us. I am not complaining, that is to be expected. When a realm starts, it doesn't start out as a Perdan or Sirion that can war with whoever whenever for whatever reason.

Also, gold isn't the only thing realm's need from a city. Cities hold infrastructure as well, and a solid infrastructure is needed to win a war. We could theoretically fight a war right now, but if we don't have the infrastructure down, it's going to be a short war. And if we fight a losing war, or even a war in general, with a weakened city, there is a chance, a very good chance, that our enemies could take advantage of that fact and reduce it again, or take it. But to make a city stronger, you need to wait for better population and more gold, and those things are tied together considering this is a region that is a gold producer.

Going to war isn't just about gathering new assets. It's about defending the assets you already have too.

[Chenier]

Why make peace time more appealing?

The only serious damage we can have right now, in most cases, is massive starvation. I see no reason to reduce the importance of war damages by improving population growth like this.

[Uzamaki]

Why make peace time more appealing?

The only serious damage we can have right now, in most cases, is massive starvation. I see no reason to reduce the importance of war damages by improving population growth like this.

This isn't reducing the importance of war, it is decreasing the time we spend not being in war. Do you really think, just because you gain a few more peasants a day, that people are going to say 'hey, let's stay bored and sit around!'. This request is trying to reduce the time that people are sitting around.

[Zakilevo]

Why make peace time more appealing?

The only serious damage we can have right now, in most cases, is massive starvation. I see no reason to reduce the importance of war damages by improving population growth like this.

The current system punishes losing wars too hard. If we want to see more wars, we need to cripple realms less so they can get back up and fight again at least within 6 months.

This request won't make peace more appealing. Actually, the current system is what is making peace more appealing than anything else.

Why try to make peace longer by crippling realms for longer periods of time? If realms can recover quickly, they can fight again more quickly. I don't understand why Tom is being so insistent on not speeding up the totally devastated regions from recovering bit faster. Why try to apply realism to this side of the game when it doesn't help the game at all?

[egamma]

Why fight if it doesn't hurt the enemy? Why even bother going to war in the first place?

[Zakilevo]

Why fight if it doesn't hurt the enemy? Why even bother going to war in the first place?

Isn't 6 months enough? How long do you want to cripple your enemy for?

And most of the time, people completely destroy their enemy realms anyway.

[egamma]

Isn't 6 months enough? How long do you want to cripple your enemy for?

And most of the time, people completely destroy their enemy realms anyway.

So what you really want, is to not make winning so painful.

[Chenier]

Isn't 6 months enough? How long do you want to cripple your enemy for?

If crippling is my goal, then odds are, it will take more than six months to achieve it. In which case, yes, I'd like them to remain crippled for as long. 4 months could be fine, but less than 3 certainly isn't worth the trouble. I'd like to point out that crippling a realm for 6 months, simply by looting, is basically impossible. Only massive starvation can cause this kind of damage.

And most of the time, people completely destroy their enemy realms anyway.

Well, if damage doesn't last long, that's one more reason to do TOs to completely wipe off the enemy, since looting wouldn't matter. There won't be any recovery time whatsoever, because your realm will be killed.

[Uzamaki]

If crippling is my goal, then odds are, it will take more than six months to achieve it. In which case, yes, I'd like them to remain crippled for as long. 4 months could be fine, but less than 3 certainly isn't worth the trouble. I'd like to point out that crippling a realm for 6 months, simply by looting, is basically impossible. Only massive starvation can cause this kind of damage.

Well, if damage doesn't last long, that's one more reason to do TOs to completely wipe off the enemy, since looting wouldn't matter. There won't be any recovery time whatsoever, because your realm will be killed.

Six months of war=six months of cripple? Wait, so you want equal parts war and peace cycles? Good God, why? And if you do, then why does this game have so few things you can do during peace? Roleplaying and region repairing can only occupy a person so much. I can understand not incentivizing peace if we want Battlemaster to be a primarily war game, where we primarily fight battles. But, if we want to make the cycle times equal, I don't want a half boring game.

[Chenier]

I said more than 6 justify up to 6 months of cripple, and that 4 months could be fine as well.

Plus, there are various levels of "cripple".

[Zakilevo]

I said more than 6 justify up to 6 months of cripple, and that 4 months could be fine as well.

Plus, there are various levels of "cripple".

Here we are talking about the usual crippling people like doing. Starving regions until there is nothing left.

If the population growth is exponential, maybe there should be an option to forcefully send a fraction of a region with full population to a region with no population to speed things up.

Cities should recover faster as they are one of the main sources of income in this game. Look at Ibladesh. That city will take more than a year to recover. Hell I wouldn't be surprised if that city takes two years or more.

Everyone wants to go into wars fully prepared especially when you know things are going to be very tight. But with the current population growth rate, that preparation period is really long. Some realms will need as long as a year to recover. How are those realms supposed to gain nobles when rebuilding time in this game is boring as hell? RPs can only go so far and keeping people busy is hard unless you fight wars in BM.