CE-Tara Federation

[Chenier]

I think people whine too much and act too little.

[Dante Silverfire]

You only see CE/Tara, but you have no idea how hard is to form an Empire and rule everything.

For the record: I helped set it up (the current one) and was one of the leading members in maintaining the growth of the Empire until I left to found Coria. My character is still one of the main contributors towards the continuing prosperity of the empire CE has set up due to being one of the leaders of Coria one of its "buffer" realms shall you say.

Just a bit of background to back up the statements I've been making. I am well aware of how CE runs their empire and all of the work that goes into it. It is very impressive.

[Dante Silverfire]

Meh, if it were only CE and Tara there wouldn't be any problems. They're not that dominant. Just Darka and Eston together come pretty close in the amount of nobles and both realms probably have enough gold to keep fielding good armies that could match up against them. Add in a third realm and you'd have a good fight. In terms of gold on hand Darka's probably as rich as all(well, most of) the other realms combined on Atamara so it could support an pretty massive offensive in terms of gold if there was the opportunity for it. Which there isn't because of the outlying realms.

You can't really ignore Talerium since they effectively mean CE doesn't need to worry about the north in any way. That entire part of CE is perfectly safe because of them. So the problem isn't really so much the federation as it is the corner realms that gravitate towards it due to blind loyalty(or fear).

Would the federation breaking change things? Maybe, but I wouldn't hold my breath for Talerium to stop from supporting CE and keeping their north safe.

You're right that CE and Tara alone don't exactly mean anything. But, a lot of your statement is also looking explicitly with the intention to go fight and beat CE and/or Tara. I think the primary issue is not "Can we beat them in a war" but, "Is it even feasible to consider anything other than alliance" for the current allies of the federation. So long as CE and Tara stand united, why should any of their other realms even bother contemplating a different path, when it only means destruction, loss of safety, etc...

If the federation is split, then CE can have its own diplomacy and its own wars, and Tara can have its own diplomacy and its own wars. Right now that is impossible. This means that any war that Tara is in, CE is in as well. Then they both bring their whole slew of allies with them.  Any war involving any of the 5 realms automatically becomes a war involving all 5. THAT is what is toxic.

[LilWolf]

If the federation is split, then CE can have its own diplomacy and its own wars, and Tara can have its own diplomacy and its own wars. Right now that is impossible. This means that any war that Tara is in, CE is in as well. Then they both bring their whole slew of allies with them.  Any war involving any of the 5 realms automatically becomes a war involving all 5. THAT is what is toxic.

Eh, that isn't going to change very easily. Even if the federation is broken you'd need a real bloody war between the two before they'd pursue their agendas on their own and I honestly just don't see that happening.

[Dante Silverfire]

I honestly just don't see that happening.

^I think this is the primary point worth making though.

[Blue Star]

So are we trying to find someone to blame for CE-Tara federations?

Honestly its everyone's fault on AT. For years everyone has gone along with it. The war with Fasland was a big step, Redspan's destruction, Darka working with CE-Tara for so long, the south breaking apart . It was inevitable that this was gonna happen.

What some of you forget is that Darka has maintained its region untouched since before 2005, ha KK has done a excellent job leading Darka since Mr. Jones and Whiteknight united it. Truly worth mentioning since now CE and company are on their doorstep almost.

[Lorgan]

I don't think Tara immediately jumped into the war when CE was attacked, did they? I haven't been very much involved with AT to know if that was for purely strategic reasons or if their participation was not accepted as fact yet. If it was for the last reason... maybe the CE-Tara alliance is not THAT stable in non-threatening circumstances and may fall apart when things settle down.

[Indirik]

Tara did not fight directly with CE on the same battlefield. But they were definitely fighting on CEs side. They were fighting in the northeast to hold off MI/BoM/Hammarsett/Darka so they could not directly attack CE, and to prop up Coria.

[de Aquitane]

Tara did not fight directly with CE on the same battlefield. But they were definitely fighting on CEs side. They were fighting in the northeast to hold off MI/BoM/Hammarsett/Darka so they could not directly attack CE, and to prop up Coria.

To be honest in the beginning of the war when Suville was still witht he southern coalition, some moral-wise rather important battles within CE were fought with Tara using their dipmomatic relations to change the allegiances so that the whole southern assault was halted, we ended up with a third of our force on the other side by accident. Obviously we are going with the Suville being untrustworthy scounderels of no honor until the end of days due to these events, but I do believe they were an accident that caused the war go as it went.

[Sonya]

Politics, everything is politics.

The same politics that avoided BoM, MI and Eston to make BBQ smacks with Barad Falas.
The Same politics that made Ser'quea seceded into Helmsdale.
The same politic that stopped Caergoth of firefighting the Empire.
The Same politics that made Suville join the Empire and attack Carelia.

That's people is how you win wars, give others what they wish at low risk and they will do what you want.

What? do you think i didn't received offers from the Empire when i was the Duchess of Strombran? of course i did! But sadly i play my main character as a honorable "For The Crown" noble, and wouldn't betray my realm, well one of these days i make a villain character....

But that is how is, you cant expect Tallerium or any other supporter to switch the winning side of you are not offering something better in exchange.

And as far i can tell, by the moment, the Empire have the good cards.

So again, stop complaining, rebuild, load and fire away.

Peace!

[Eirikr]

This whole thing seems kinda off to me. We're discussing IC things at an OOC level so we can change them at an OOC level? I won't deny that if the majority believes it is stalling the game and killing the fun, something should be done, but that doesn't make sense to have the players do it for OOC reasons. In many cases, it would require some places to totally flip their current IC reputation. If the devs wanted to drop something in to accomplish the same end, that might be fine. (For example, throw in a Daimon invasion. I wonder how many would actively fight the daimons and how many would take advantage of the chaos.)

There has to be a good way to do this instead. I can think of several in-character ways someone might be able to pull it off, but right now, neither of my Atamaran characters can see a logical reason to do those things. Ravendon has the power, but is failing to see the good in splitting the federation for the moment. Despite his thoughts about Tara, he's no longer suffering from them and has no urgent need to fix it. Maduin is so far away that while he'd do anything to bring Vikings battlefield success, he can't reasonably change things.

I think we should treat it as a logic puzzle: How do you attack one ally without provoking the other? Whoever finds out how wins a revolution on Atamara.

[BarticaBoat]

You're all thinking wrong! I've been involved in CE, Tara, and Talerium since I started playing the game, and well... I can think of a great way to split the federation, but that doesn't benefit my characters so why would I?

[Eirikr]

You're all thinking wrong! I've been involved in CE, Tara, and Talerium since I started playing the game, and well... I can think of a great way to split the federation, but that doesn't benefit my characters so why would I?

Precisely. However, if you had a character that say... wanted to rule a realm in Atamara, you could always try to start up within CE or Tara. That would benefit your character for sure, provided your character's goal is to do that. One of the problems with having the power to deal in realm-to-realm politics is that you have likely reached your character's aspirations... All that's left is to expand or keep it going. The best way to keep it going for the CE/Tara bloc is to keep CE/Tara working. They've actually been pretty good about giving regions to those they help as well. Coria's about doubled in size and Tara's asked for essentially nothing in return. While it's true I'd have been pissed if they did considering how they fielded their troops, they technically could have asked for some of Coria's southern regions.

[GoldPanda]

You know who's been sitting pretty for too long? Darka and BoM. "Corner realms" have serious advantages in this game. The more neighbors you have, the more friendships you have to maintain, and the more wolves you have to keep at bay. If you only have two neighbors, just kiss up to the stronger one and slap the weaker one around. Easy. You are now free to spend the rest of your energy to actually influence people, instead of just working toward mere survival.

How long has it been since a region bearing a Darkan and Makarian banner has been attacked? Years?

And that breeds complacency. The last time CE marched on BoM, Sordnaz threw a hissy fit in the rulers' channel. He couldn't imagine that anyone would dare to invade his realm. And it's true. You have to be a special breed of crazy to invade BoM. BoM is like Russia except it's winter all the time.

So excuse me if I tune off every time someone starts going off again about how easy CE and Tara have it on AT.

[Dante Silverfire]

So excuse me if I tune off every time someone starts going off again about how easy CE and Tara have it on AT.

I don't think anyone is asserting that CE and Tara have it easy on Atamara. They work hard for their position.

I would assert though that CE and Tara have it easy in keeping their nobles entertained. They just play the game normally. If you're a corner realm you have to make up junk like being a "viking" or being a "mercenary" to make your nobles interested in staying in a wasteland of territory for so long.