Realm Merger of Solaria and Luria Nova

[Vellos]

There are two bugs here.

One, the duchy containing the capital should not be allowed to switch realms.
Two, the last duchy of a realm should not be allowed to switch realms.

Whoever made the first duchy change without reporting it as a bug is as guilty as Sebastian.

Really?

I do believe multiple devs have said that the 1st point is intended.

[Telrunya]

I remember way way back Krimml changing allegiances as well as Capital of Fontan under the old system. Capitals can't secede, but they could change allegiances, IIRC. If that's intended or not I don't know.

[Anaris]

There are two bugs here.

One, the duchy containing the capital should not be allowed to switch realms.

This has been allowed for as long as we've had duchies.

Two, the last duchy of a realm should not be allowed to switch realms.

This is what's not been allowed.

If you are declaring now that #1 is to be disallowed, that is a major policy change.

Not only will it require significant code changes, but it should absolutely not be used as a reason to punish Solari for what he did, because for years now, it has been both possible and legal to change the allegiance of the capital duchy. Ex post facto laws are a bad thing, whatever your original ideas might have been.

[vonGenf]

the realm page of Solaria still listed Poryatown as the capital.

So, is this really not a bug? I find it hard to believe.

[Anaris]

So, is this really not a bug? I find it hard to believe.

Unless Tom changes it by fiat right now:

1) Being able to change the allegiance of the capital duchy is not a bug.
2) Having your capital remain a region outside your realm is not a bug.

It has been possible for your capital to belong to another realm for...well, probably since takeovers were first enabled back in 2001 or whatever.

[vonGenf]

2) Having your capital remain a region outside your realm is not a bug.

Wow, ok. Thanks.

[fodder]

This has been allowed for as long as we've had duchies.

i seem to remember in SEI the duchy of sandalak (or was it ikalak) only get to flip realm when it's not the capital anymore.

either way...  bug re: flipping last duchy to another realm has been there since daimon invasion.

eg: Fheuvenem flipped to enweil whilst getting TO'ed

[Morningstar]

FWIW, I can't speak to either the first or second duchal allegiance change, but I changed Tranquil in a "what's best for my region" move. It's been hard enough keeping it from going rogue and losing it that it would be pretty impossible with no capital and no adjacent regions. Not a merger on my part. My character is still new enough to that area that he has no real vested interest in any realm at all yet. And it was not discussed in-realm to have been a merger in any way either.

[Penchant]

Unless Tom changes it by fiat right now:

1) Being able to change the allegiance of the capital duchy is not a bug.
2) Having your capital remain a region outside your realm is not a bug.

It has been possible for your capital to belong to another realm for...well, probably since takeovers were first enabled back in 2001 or whatever.

so could they have recruited at Poryatu, or is it their capital only in title?

[Draco Tanos]

either way...  bug re: flipping last duchy to another realm has been there since daimon invasion.

eg: Fheuvenem flipped to enweil whilst getting TO'ed

Pretty sure even then people said it was an obvious bug.  I think it bothered fewer people as it was only involving NPC forces.

When I was Duke of Ossmat (before the Duke/Margrave split), and before OG resecured Vatrona, the game told me that since I was the only city (or stronghold, apparently), not only could I not switch but I was uber powerful.

When we regained Vatrona (a stronghold), the game told me I couldn't secede to form my own realm as I was the capital, but I could switch to a neighboring realm.

It seems since the Duke/Margrave split, there's been a hiccup in the system.  Obviously it's not intended though, judging from the reaction of Tom and the Devs. 

[Solari]

Solaria had two duchies. One contained a city, the other a stronghold. Sun Hall aligned with Luria Nova, leaving Solaria with a single duchy and a stronghold. Remember: in the new political model, there is nothing special about a city except that it makes a lot of money and is one of two region types that can be capitals. Strongholds are the other. This has never been a bug, unless we redefine bug to mean something that has been explicitly allowed and not coded to prevent. The merger of the second duchy into Luria Nova should not have been allowed, because the code is supposed to prevent this from happening when a realm is left with a single city/stronghold. It was a behavior that was not expected, given the parameters in the code.

Please be mindful of how the word "bug" is used. In part, because it means something very specific to the code, which is not publicly-accessible. Also because you open the door to the silliness of defining behavior that one might find personally disadvantageous, or not properly understood, as a bug. BattleMaster is littered with examples of conventional wisdom about certain things being completely wrong because someone said X and everyone agreed.

[Gustav Kuriga]

Solaria had two duchies. One contained a city, the other a stronghold. Sun Hall aligned with Luria Nova, leaving Solaria with a single duchy and a stronghold. This has never been a bug, unless we redefine bug to mean something that has been explicitly allowed and not coded to prevent. The merger of the second duchy into Luria Nova should not have been allowed, because the code is supposed to prevent this from happening when a realm is left with a single city/stronghold. It was a behavior that was not expected, given the parameters in the code.

Please be mindful of how the word "bug" is used. In part, because it means something very specific to the code, which is not publicly-accessible. Also because you open the door to the silliness of defining behavior that one might find personally disadvantageous, or not properly understood, as a bug. BattleMaster is littered with examples of conventional wisdom about cerrtain things being completely wrong because someone said X and everyone agreed.

This. It is not a bug.

[fodder]

Pretty sure even then people said it was an obvious bug.  I think it bothered fewer people as it was only involving NPC forces.

not saying it's not a bug. it's very well known.. and been there in one form or other for months
#0006200 <-- something was fixed
#0007360

[Tom]

Allegiance switches of the capital have always been unintentional.

There is code in the game to handle the capital being part of another realm, but that was for the situation where the enemy has conquered your capital - without that code, taking out the capital would have meant instant death for a realm.

[Anaris]

Allegiance switches of the capital have always been unintentional.

Then it would have been nice if you'd mentioned that any of the 3 times I've rewritten that code.

In fact, I could have sworn that at least one of the times, I came to the dev list and made sure I knew exactly what the parameters were, including input from you, and that wasn't among them.