Author Topic: Adventurer elevaton to Nobility adjustment  (Read 3831 times)

House Talratheon

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Adventurer elevaton to Nobility adjustment
« Topic Start: October 27, 2012, 07:00:42 PM »
Title: Adventurer elevaton to Nobility adjustment

Summary: Increase difficulty of adventurer of becoming noble requiring 3 recommendations then King's (of his/her realm's) approval.

Details:
  • Adventurer gains three recommendations. 
  • Adventurer gets option to petition King having his recommendations allowing King to see who signed and decide to elevation or deny until he/she so wishes
  • If King denies him he can leave the realm or brown nose more, who cares he's just a commoner.

Benefits:

  • Ensures King controls commoner to nobility appointments as stated in BM wiki -
    Quote
    Blood is everything. The idea of 'elevating' a mere commoner to a noble was disgusting to many, and this was an extremely rare act, reserved for people who had done tremendous service to the Crown.
  • Creates a tiered system requiring a commoner to impress both Lords and King to gain ''elevation''
  • Prevents or inhibits OOC fast tracking of commoners.
  • Influences correct nobility to commoner interactions.

Possible Exploits: None come to mind

Indirik

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Re: Adventurer elevaton to Nobility adjustment
« Reply #1: October 27, 2012, 07:10:47 PM »
In Battlemaster, there is no creation of new nobility. Adventurers are "lost" or "unknown" members of noble families. They are not made into new nobles or the first member of a new noble family, they have simply managed to get their claim to membership in a noble house recognize.

Now, whether or not it is too easy or too hard to get an advy recognized as a noble is a separate issue. I don't really have any opinion there. I have had two advys, and neither managed to get more than 2 recommendations.
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Tom

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Re: Adventurer elevaton to Nobility adjustment
« Reply #2: October 28, 2012, 02:18:38 AM »
Need more data to decide, is it really too easy?

egamma

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Re: Adventurer elevaton to Nobility adjustment
« Reply #3: October 28, 2012, 08:37:20 AM »
I'd say that if an adjustment is needed, that the colonies be left as they are--I think it took me a couple of years to gather 3 recommendations (in part due to nobles emigrating/deleting/dying).

Foundation

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Re: Adventurer elevaton to Nobility adjustment
« Reply #4: October 28, 2012, 03:06:42 PM »
I found it quite hard when I had an adventurer on BT... maybe it's just because I don't like the grinding nature of advies.
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Daycryn

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Re: Adventurer elevaton to Nobility adjustment
« Reply #5: October 28, 2012, 04:11:53 PM »
The king shouldn't have to individually review the petitions of adventurers. Seems a bit beneath his station, really. Isn't one of the reasons he has lords and knights is so they deal with the dirty masses and he only has to deal with the gilded gentle-born?

I too found it rather difficult and time consuming to make it to the nobility. Just barely not prohibitively so.
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D'Espana

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Re: Adventurer elevaton to Nobility adjustment
« Reply #6: October 28, 2012, 05:05:46 PM »
I might have been very lucky seeing your answers, but it took me around seven months to make a noble from my advy, and I was not exactly hunting monsters all the time. I just sought for rare items every day, and soon I managed to get the three items and recommendations. So is it too much easy? I don't think so. As I've said, I might have been just lucky there. But I also approve some way of controlling who becomes a noble and who doesn't. I would see very weird having Terrence's nobility recognised by D'Hara, for example.

Edit: This happened in Beluaterra, just prior to the last Invasion, so it might have affected my odds, I don't know. Though I have a friend with adventurers in Dwilight and Beluaterra, and despite him hunting every time he is able to he hasn't managed a single recommendation yet.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2012, 05:09:04 PM by D'Espana »
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Re: Adventurer elevaton to Nobility adjustment
« Reply #7: October 28, 2012, 08:24:55 PM »
It depends on the culture of the realm you're in too.  I know Westmoor and OG both have a long history of raising/recognizing advies as nobility.  Hell, one even became Queen of OG for awhile.  The CoH even recognizes the worth of Advies as Advies for they are the first line of defense for Humanity against the forces of Darkness.

Others?  Others treat advies like [email protected]#$.  It's a shame, but makes sense from an IC standpoint.

House Talratheon

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Re: Adventurer elevaton to Nobility adjustment
« Reply #8: October 28, 2012, 10:07:28 PM »
I look at it from the explained process, nobles are to commoners as commoners are to donkeys. They are tools and barely considered people and for one of those to become a noble from non-royal recommendations. Even in modern interpretations you can get a dozen recommendations yet still not get the job you want or admittance to a school or organization because in the end it's only a recommendation to be shown to another for interpretation or acceptance.

Even considering the lowest of recommendations say a advie gets three recommendations from mere knights with borderline honor and prestige while noble it would be far more impressive to see an advie with three to five recommendations from mostly Lords and Dukes then reaches a King to be considered or spit upon and laughed about in court.

Not to mention I think a King should have a say in the process of a common born being elevated to peerage in his/her realm. Rather than pleasing three knights and suddenly popping up on a radar as a noble equal all of a sudden, it makes the claim sound questionable in any respect of medieval peerage. However for the Throne to emerge and beset a claim of nobility over a man/women is far more legitimate and unquestionable to the nobility of a Realm and could even be interpreted as being ''Knighted''.

Penchant

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Re: Adventurer elevaton to Nobility adjustment
« Reply #9: October 29, 2012, 12:50:08 AM »
I look at it from the explained process, nobles are to commoners as commoners are to donkeys. They are tools and barely considered people and for one of those to become a noble from non-royal recommendations. Even in modern interpretations you can get a dozen recommendations yet still not get the job you want or admittance to a school or organization because in the end it's only a recommendation to be shown to another for interpretation or acceptance.

Even considering the lowest of recommendations say a advie gets three recommendations from mere knights with borderline honor and prestige while noble it would be far more impressive to see an advie with three to five recommendations from mostly Lords and Dukes then reaches a King to be considered or spit upon and laughed about in court.

Not to mention I think a King should have a say in the process of a common born being elevated to peerage in his/her realm. Rather than pleasing three knights and suddenly popping up on a radar as a noble equal all of a sudden, it makes the claim sound questionable in any respect of medieval peerage. However for the Throne to emerge and beset a claim of nobility over a man/women is far more legitimate and unquestionable to the nobility of a Realm and could even be interpreted as being ''Knighted''.
So...the main part of your argument is invalid because this is not a commoner becoming a noble. This is a noble being rejected from the family, then after the recommendations the family is recognizing them as family, reinstating them into their noble lives.

House Talratheon

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Re: Adventurer elevaton to Nobility adjustment
« Reply #10: October 29, 2012, 09:18:35 AM »
So...the main part of your argument is invalid because this is not a commoner becoming a noble. This is a noble being rejected from the family, then after the recommendations the family is recognizing them as family, reinstating them into their noble lives.

To be re-instated they'd have to have been considered nobility in the first place, or even accepted as a member of bloodline which in most cases these were bastard children or children of denounced lines in which case is being a commoner. You were denied in name, and continued to be until you were of both use  and proven to be of a bloodline even today there are common people who if were to research their ancestral lines could petition for recognition of a noble line. The Tudor line it self produced so many bastards it's predicted some still exist though the royal line is considered dead.

Adventurers are considered to fall into this category, and yet they are still commoners, a commoner with possible claim but commoner nonetheless.

As for me, I went from advie to noble very quickly, it seemed far too easy.



Eldargard

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Re: Adventurer elevaton to Nobility adjustment
« Reply #11: October 29, 2012, 11:55:33 AM »
On point worth considering is that even the lowest of player controlled nobles are, as I understand it, still among the most influential nobles of the country. I would not discount their recommendations so easily. Much of what you say makes logical sense though. I just wonder if it makes the game better or more fun for players.

Chenier

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Re: Adventurer elevaton to Nobility adjustment
« Reply #12: October 29, 2012, 12:19:14 PM »
The ease of ennobling one's adventurer depends on the style of play one uses. It can be relatively easy, but is long for most people.

I kind of like this idea. Kings could grant noble status to people for their deeds, in the days. I like the feel of having the ruler need to grant this status of recognition.

Anaris

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Re: Adventurer elevaton to Nobility adjustment
« Reply #13: October 29, 2012, 12:21:39 PM »
To be re-instated they'd have to have been considered nobility in the first place, or even accepted as a member of bloodline which in most cases these were bastard children or children of denounced lines in which case is being a commoner. You were denied in name, and continued to be until you were of both use  and proven to be of a bloodline even today there are common people who if were to research their ancestral lines could petition for recognition of a noble line. The Tudor line it self produced so many bastards it's predicted some still exist though the royal line is considered dead.

Adventurers are considered to fall into this category, and yet they are still commoners, a commoner with possible claim but commoner nonetheless.

Once an adventurer has acquired three recommendations and become a noble, they were always a noble and their nobility was simply recognized.

Before an adventurer has done this, they are nothing but a commoner and can never become a noble.

You have to be able to apply doublethink if you want to understand it. Medieval logic is not like modern logic.

(And no, this is not tongue-in-cheek; this is essentially the official RP explanation for the situation.)
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Re: Adventurer elevaton to Nobility adjustment
« Reply #14: October 29, 2012, 09:51:12 PM »

As for me, I went from advie to noble very quickly, it seemed far too easy.
How long did it actually take you?