Sorraine vs. Ohnar West

[Solari]

FEI needs more little realms and less blobs like Arcaea and Kindara 

As one of the people who designed FEI, I don't know that this was ever really the intent. In the beginning, there were two realms. City populations (and thus incomes) were kept low to discourage players motivated by that sort of thing. Many small realms can work, but they at least need the ability to build things and arm themselves. There's also a question of a diluted talent pool. Let's say you have 11 realms. That's potentially 44 councilors on an island with ~200 nobles. Almost a quarter of the characters would be councilors. That's a difficult level of competence and activity to maintain, even during BM's halcyon days.

I completely share the sentiment of smaller realms with more engaged characters, but it doesn't always work out in practice. If it could be done anywhere, it'd be Dwilight.

[Scarlett]

I think Sorraine's reason for going to war is perfectly legitimate.

Melehan isn't their reason. Mathilda admitted that the only reason they weren't already at war was because of the Kindaran conflict, that Sorraine just thinks Ohnar deserves to be destroyed, and that's that.

[Lefanis]

I completely share the sentiment of smaller realms with more engaged characters, but it doesn't always work out in practice. If it could be done anywhere, it'd be Dwilight.

Well, the scale of Dwilight, and too a less extent, AT or BT, means that realms can be big, because there will be many other realms as well, so the continent as a whole will be dynamic. When you have a small continent with many big realms, things tend to be static.

[Gustav Kuriga]

Melehan isn't their reason. Mathilda admitted that the only reason they weren't already at war was because of the Kindaran conflict, that Sorraine just thinks Ohnar deserves to be destroyed, and that's that.

Melehan isn't HER reason, you mean. My character, who is the Crown Prince, and therefore the second most powerful person in Sorraine, wants to fight because of Ohnar West selling food to Kindara. And since I have control of the military, that's the reason for the military going in.

[Scarlett]

. My character, who is the Crown Prince, and therefore the second most powerful person in Sorraine, wants to fight because of Ohnar West selling food to Kindara. And since I have control of the military, that's the reason for the military going in.

The trouble with that (and the reason why Mathilda probably didn't bank more on it when she told everyone about the war) is that it suggests that, if Ohnar banned Melehan, Sorraine would end the war.

Melehan is a good excuse for war, he's just not a good excuse for conquest.

[Solari]

Melehan is a good excuse for war, he's just not a good excuse for conquest.

Heh, needing excuses for conquest.

[Creed]

The problem isn't the war  but the fact that the large realms see the need to gang bang the smallest realm on the island. I mean OW controls 4 regions. If you want to have a war with OW fine but at least make it somewhat fun for everyone not just lets just all attack OW because they are the weakest and we have nothing better to do.

[Scarlett]

The problem isn't the war  but the fact that the large realms see the need to gang bang the smallest realm on the island

It's war. Not dodgeball.

You can drop any pretense of roleplaying but for much of the island and the rulers who at least keep up nominal appearances at caring about it, what matters is how nobles act and what they say, not whether war is 'fair.

It has already been pointed out that Ohnar West has an avenue out of this. It remains to be seen whether they'll be able to take it. The surest way for them to fail to take it would be to use words like 'gang bang' or act like they're down a man on the pitch and could we please get even teams.

[Creed]

It's war. Not dodgeball.

You can drop any pretense of roleplaying but for much of the island and the rulers who at least keep up nominal appearances at caring about it, what matters is how nobles act and what they say, not whether war is 'fair.

It has already been pointed out that Ohnar West has an avenue out of this. It remains to be seen whether they'll be able to take it. The surest way for them to fail to take it would be to use words like 'gang bang' or act like they're down a man on the pitch and could we please get even teams.

Scarlett any war with any realm would not be fair with the way OW sits now but at least make it some what fun.  Lets break it down we have Coryalynth at war with us but we cant attack them because   Arcea  is going to send troops to reinforce their lands so we cant. Sorraine surrounds our entire realm. Sorraine has triple the resources OW in every category besides food. Now lets see what OW has we have 4 regions that are among the poorest region on the map. the resources we do receive is almost laughable.

So Scarlette do I expect a fair fight no but I at least expect other players to to make the war a little bit fun rather then steam rolling over people.   

[Indirik]

For the record, Sorraine did not, so far as I know, ask Coralynth to join the war. I had no idea they were thinking about it. Sorraine made the decision to go to war on its own, deliberately not seeking the aide of allies. Coralynths action was a surprise to me.

Also, the behavior of OW during the war (selling food to Kindara) makes for an excellent reason for conquest. We will remove their ability to betray us in the same manner again.

[Creed]

For the record, Sorraine did not, so far as I know, ask Coralynth to join the war. I had no idea they were thinking about it. Sorraine made the decision to go to war on its own, deliberately not seeking the aide of allies. Coralynths action was a surprise to me.

Also, the behavior of OW during the war (selling food to Kindara) makes for an excellent reason for conquest. We will remove their ability to betray us in the same manner again.

LOL one nobles sells food to another realm and it some how goes to OW betraying everyone. Its not a big deal I just wanted to make a war more fun then just having everyone hop on  lets gang bang OW train.

[Scarlett]

Scarlett any war with any realm would not be fair with the way OW sits now but at least make it some what fun

You don't want to 'make the war more fun.' You want to have a sporting chance because you are looking at it like a sport. You want to measure Ohnar West's ability to send 6,000 or 8,000 or 10,000 CS somewhere against Sorraine's ability to do the same. This is well and good but it has nothing at all to do with why realms go to war.

If you look at wars on the FEI as 'gang bangs' or the 'let's gang up on OW' train then you are purposefully blinding yourself to the reasons and motivations that cause these wars. Medieval politics are local and personal. Arcachon didn't just fight a war with Arcaea -- they insulted Arcaeans every chance they got. They made it as difficult as possible for Arcaea to conquer the Dark Isle even well after it became clear that they had no hope of winning. Their mission was to make life for King Velax as unpleasant as possible. So it is no surprise to me that three quarters of what anybody thinks about Ohnar West is made up of leftover grudges against Arcachon nobles.

I'm not saying that I envy the hand dealt to Ingall in all this but Cathay started the last war with a smaller army than either Zonasa or Kindara when our nearest and only guaranteed ally had a 10-day turnaround time for a refit due to the distances involved. We didn't out-resource either Zonasa or Kindara and at best we fought them to a draw on the field. The one resource that isn't measured in a number on the realm info page is 'friends and favors' and if Ingall is savvy and Ohnar lets him do his job, he ought to at least be able to make a go of it. Or, barring that, at least deny Sorraine victory through a couple creative alternatives.

[Anaris]

You don't want to 'make the war more fun.' You want to have a sporting chance because you are looking at it like a sport. You want to measure Ohnar West's ability to send 6,000 or 8,000 or 10,000 CS somewhere against Sorraine's ability to do the same. This is well and good but it has nothing at all to do with why realms go to war.

If you look at wars on the FEI as 'gang bangs' or the 'let's gang up on OW' train then you are purposefully blinding yourself to the reasons and motivations that cause these wars. Medieval politics are local and personal. Arcachon didn't just fight a war with Arcaea -- they insulted Arcaeans every chance they got. They made it as difficult as possible for Arcaea to conquer the Dark Isle even well after it became clear that they had no hope of winning. Their mission was to make life for King Velax as unpleasant as possible. So it is no surprise to me that three quarters of what anybody thinks about Ohnar West is made up of leftover grudges against Arcachon nobles.

I'm not saying that I envy the hand dealt to Ingall in all this but Cathay started the last war with a smaller army than either Zonasa or Kindara when our nearest and only guaranteed ally had a 10-day turnaround time for a refit due to the distances involved. We didn't out-resource either Zonasa or Kindara and at best we fought them to a draw on the field. The one resource that isn't measured in a number on the realm info page is 'friends and favors' and if Ingall is savvy and Ohnar lets him do his job, he ought to at least be able to make a go of it. Or, barring that, at least deny Sorraine victory through a couple creative alternatives.

Y'know, I may not always agree with you, but this is one of the best statements of the sensible side of the "gangbang" issue I've seen (particularly the first paragraph).

Well said.

[Broose]

For the record, Sorraine did not, so far as I know, ask Coralynth to join the war. I had no idea they were thinking about it. Sorraine made the decision to go to war on its own, deliberately not seeking the aide of allies. Coralynths action was a surprise to me.

Also, the behavior of OW during the war (selling food to Kindara) makes for an excellent reason for conquest. We will remove their ability to betray us in the same manner again.

Yep, it was never my plan for Coralynth to get pulled into it, though Ingall seems to think we were in coordination during the days leading up to the war.

[Scarlett]

Ingall has the worst job in the Far East. Cut the guy some slack.