Tweaks for the acquisition of starving regions

[Chenier]

Title: Tweaks to the acquisition of starving regions
Summary: As it is, a region can have 105% sympathy to your realm, but if it's starving at the end of the first turn you have it (after a TO or a cession), all the stats immediately go to hell and the region hates you. Nothing else in the game brings such drastic actions so quickly.

I therefore propose a two-part solution. First, starvation penalties should not occur for at least three turns after the acquiring the region. You never know when a takeover will truly finish, it's unfair that simply missing a turn can have such drastic effects, and its against the lightweight nature of the game. If a ban takes at least three turns to come into effect, it would seem fair for starvation of new regions to only start doing damage after three turns.

Secondly, we need a means to feed lordless regions. In some realms, it takes 5 days for the lordship elections to run! And though I don't know the % of realms who use referendums, but my experience suggests a lot of them do. It's ridiculous that there's nothing that can be done for a full 5 days to feed a region. Plus extras, if the chosen lord happens to be unavailable when the referendum ends. After all, he isn't sure to win either, can't force everyone that's running to be on the minute the referendum ends to set a buy offer, and for the other lords to be immediately on to sell them food. I propose that lords and stewards, in starving regions, be given the option to donate food, with a maximum of a week's consumption (minimum of 50 bushels, for the cases where a large army needs more food than the low population count).
Benefits: The current way of things is overly harsh to realms who aren't hyperactive and to realms who use elections. It also makes starving your own region during a takeover way too powerful, because of the loyalty hits that will strike your enemy when they finish the TO and starvation kicks in. Immediate starvation penalties made more sense back when the banker controlled the food everywhere, but even then it was cheap and it's unreasonnable now with the great number of actors involved and and the delays necessary for the to be able to do their jobs.
Possible Exploits: The donation cap prevents abuse of this feature to freely move food around.

[Anaris]

I think that what's really needed here is a more general adjustment to the handling of recently taken-over regions, that dramatically reduces the penalties and bonuses to loyalty for all regular region-turn-script stuff—especially if it is moving loyalty away from 50%. The new realm has not had enough time to prove themselves one way or another as lords (as opposed to someone to see from afar), and should generally be considered more neutral for a few days after a takeover.

This should not affect active region work done by nobles; just the turn-script bonuses and penalties.

(I think we even have a tag that tracks recent takeovers already, put in to support just this sort of thing, and left partly unfinished.)

[Indirik]

In general, I agree with the sentiment behind this request. There should be some adjustments to game mechanics to at least let the new realm try to fix problems before trashing them.

As to the referendums... appoint someone. You can still do that even if you run referendums. I *think* I remember Tom clarifying the placeholder rules to allow temporary appointments for newly taken regions while referendums run. Placeholders are only things like: "Kepler lost the judge office when he was captured, so I will be judge until he gets set free. Then I will step down so Kepler can have it back."

[Bedwyr]

Anything which makes dealing with recently taken and starving regions easier would be wonderful.

[fodder]

this was mentioned ages ago.

the election thing.... just give the key to the granary to the banker when there isn't a lord or steward.

[Penchant]

In general, I agree with the sentiment behind this request. There should be some adjustments to game mechanics to at least let the new realm try to fix problems before trashing them.

As to the referendums... appoint someone. You can still do that even if you run referendums. I *think* I remember Tom clarifying the placeholder rules to allow temporary appointments for newly taken regions while referendums run. Placeholders are only things like: "Kepler lost the judge office when he was captured, so I will be judge until he gets set free. Then I will step down so Kepler can have it back."

your second statement is something that annoys me. Instead of modifying the page to clarify about the placeholder rule, it's a clarification on the forum. No one is going to think, "Maybe this rule has an exception that is not mentioned at all, nor hinted at." Tom himself said that the forum is a horrible place to find stuff at that is what the wiki is for. I am not trying to insult anyone or blame anyone or anything like that but when a clarification on a rule is made,it should be put on the corresponding page so people can actually see it.

[Indirik]

It probably should go on the wiki somewhere. Maybe I can eventually remember where I saw it...

[Chenier]

It probably should go on the wiki somewhere. Maybe I can eventually remember where I saw it...

I don't remember ever seeing that, and it sounds like a clear violation of the placeholder rule. Not to mention that the referendum will only give a claim (if that still exists) to the winner if there's already someone, and doing this will force the other guy to take a honour hit to step down.

I don't really care what fix is used, many possibilities exist. I just suggested one way of dealing with the subject. Just feels like there should be a grace period for new regions and that lordless status shouldn't make a region starve.

[vonGenf]

It probably should go on the wiki somewhere. Maybe I can eventually remember where I saw it...

http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Rules_and_Policies

"*Nobles holding placeholder positions are prohibited. It is not acceptable for Keplerina to hold a position for Kepler and step down when Kepler is able to take the position again.", added in march 2010, not replacing anything. It basically states what you just said, although there have been account locks for people holding positions waiting for an election to happen. It's nice if that won't happen again.