Author Topic: Stealth mode for unitless infiltraitors  (Read 17255 times)

m2rt

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Stealth mode for unitless infiltraitors
« Topic Start: January 06, 2013, 07:47:00 AM »
Summary: Unitless infiltrators should be invisible to scoutings, character pages and region pages.
Details: Infiltrators should be invisible (if they activate the "stealth mode") starting from a skill level of 50% and then have a chance (based on skill level) to be "seen" in the region after the deed is done. For example at turn change if there was crime. (people start looking around and might see somebody unusal. Rumours will get to the lord of the region through serfs.. As a lot of people are in the loop, then it will not happen instantly. If at all... There can be several details shown based on randomness and skill. Like: Name, realm name, Duchy name.) Though infiltrators with units should be visible. The "Stealth mode" should be possible to turn on and off... So you can act like a normal noble every once in a while...

Benefits:
  • Adding fun back to infiltrator game.
  • Taking OOC knowledge out of the loop. For example, if a foreign noble is seen in a region where somebody got stabbed, then he gets automatically the blame. That makes it real hard to prove that you were not included. Even if you try to RP, then nobody will go along with it.
  • Make it possible to actually stay in one realm longer than two assassination attempts...
  • To make infiltraitors useful again.

Possible Exploits:
  • Infiltraitors used as permament hidden scouters
  • Feeling of not getting punished
Solution to both exploits: Make it so that infiltraitors go invisible only after reaching skill level 50%. Then once they are invisible, there is a chance to be "seen" by NPCs. Once you are seen, then there will be a message to lord at turn change. There would be different levels of messages. Like first level would be: "Something fishy is going on and the serfs think that there is a culprit roaming around". Second level would have a realm name. Third Duchy name. And fourth the name of the person... Maybe fifth with a "location" of the culprit allowing the lord a chance to set a trap if he sees the message before infils are gone....

The chance to be seen should depend on several factors. Just passing by should do nothing. But the chance should be higher by: turns staying in one region, scouting, any criminal action you do (based on severity), randomness. Good infil skill should lower the chance. And at turn change everything is calculated and decided if you were "seen" or not.

So instead of having to fear about getting caught, you should fear about getting seen. If you stay in one region for several turns and do illegal things, then there is a chance to be seen and if you were also located. Then if you dont move away, you will be captured by lords serfs if he sets a trap.

Infiltraitor should have a random chance of seeing that people spotted/located him. But that chance should be quite low.
If you are in your own realm, then you would not be "seen" unless you do criminal things...

Just random thoughts on the matter...
It just is so boring to be an infiltrator on peace time, those features would make it quite fun.

"Getting seen" vs "Stealth mode wearing off"
One option is the getting seen feature discussed previously.
Another option would be to make the "Stealth mode" a filled bar, which will get smaller and smaller with passing time and actions committed. For example you activate stealth mode, move to 5 regions away, successfully assault a noble and start running away. Soon the bar will wear off and you will be visible again. The bar regenerates during time and maybe with shopping for new clothes or moving to different areas. The bar is bigger by the skill level...

The wearing off option should be well balanced by not making it too hard for infils to do stuff. Because if you make the criminal actions wearing the bar off too quick, then infils would only be used as scouting tools sitting in a region... But if you make scouting wear off the bar too much too, then it would not serve the purpose. It would not help if the stealth mode is active only two days...

Discuss!

milo109

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Re: Stealth mode for unitless infiltraitors
« Reply #1: January 06, 2013, 07:59:48 AM »
I love the idea! I want to be an infiltrator when I grow up, and I won't do it without this.

Jimgerdes

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Re: Stealth mode for unitless infiltraitors
« Reply #2: January 06, 2013, 08:07:06 AM »
Infiltrators showing up on region/scout reports defeats the entire purpose of the class.  The whole point is to infiltrate.  ie sabotage without being seen.  If the enemy knows who did it, what's the point?
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Penchant

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Re: Stealth mode for unitless infiltraitors
« Reply #3: January 06, 2013, 08:34:41 AM »
Infiltrators showing up on region/scout reports defeats the entire purpose of the class.  The whole point is to infiltrate.  ie sabotage without being seen.  If the enemy knows who did it, what's the point?
+1
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Norrel

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Re: Stealth mode for unitless infiltraitors
« Reply #4: January 06, 2013, 10:51:31 AM »
This used to be a feature and I think that Tom is trying to develop the class more in the direction of plausible deniability than actual stealth. So I seriously doubt that this will be accepted.
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Tom

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Re: Stealth mode for unitless infiltraitors
« Reply #5: January 06, 2013, 12:51:56 PM »
It used to be this way and was changed for a reason. Please search for the old discussions and make yourself familiar with the arguments exchanged then.


m2rt

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Re: Stealth mode for unitless infiltraitors
« Reply #6: January 06, 2013, 05:53:49 PM »
It used to be this way and was changed for a reason. Please search for the old discussions and make yourself familiar with the arguments exchanged then.

It didnt used to be this way... There are enough differences to consider it an option.

And even the way it used to be, was a lot more fun.

LilWolf

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Re: Stealth mode for unitless infiltraitors
« Reply #7: January 06, 2013, 07:27:08 PM »
And even the way it used to be, was a lot more fun.

Yeah, infiltrators are pretty boring these days. Not much different from any regular noble since there's very little sneaking around behind enemy lines these days.
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Bedwyr

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Re: Stealth mode for unitless infiltraitors
« Reply #8: January 07, 2013, 02:39:09 AM »
I'm still hoping that once there is time to look at such things infiltrators will get revamped into something more like spymasters, dispatching (NPC) underlings to do things on their behalf rather than doing them personally.
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Foxglove

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Re: Stealth mode for unitless infiltraitors
« Reply #9: January 07, 2013, 08:22:50 AM »
I've always thought the infiltrator as spymaster concept was a brilliant one ever since it was first raised. I do hope there'll be movement in that direction once time allows for it. A spymaster like a spider at the centre of a web of intelligence is a very appealing idea.

Jon Snow

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Re: Stealth mode for unitless infiltraitors
« Reply #10: January 07, 2013, 01:09:49 PM »
Can anyone post a link to the old posts regarding the changes? I actually thought infiltrators were always invisible and stuff. It must have been like that when I last played. I intend on making more than a few infiltrators too, so it'd be nice to know how everything works now. I tried searching for the post, but I can't find it.

vonGenf

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Re: Stealth mode for unitless infiltraitors
« Reply #11: January 07, 2013, 01:29:35 PM »
In a nutshell, infiltrators are no longer invisible. However, the fact that you are an infiltrator is invisible, the subclass does not appear on the character list, even in your own realm. (except to your ruler only, or has this been changed?)

If you do something and you are all alone in a region, then people will be able to connect the dots. You need to have plausible deniability if you want to operate in secret.
After all it's a roleplaying game.

Indirik

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Re: Stealth mode for unitless infiltraitors
« Reply #12: January 07, 2013, 02:29:36 PM »
The change happened before the forum opened. The discussion was back on the email list. If anyone had an archive, they could search it.
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Fleugs

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Re: Stealth mode for unitless infiltraitors
« Reply #13: January 07, 2013, 03:03:39 PM »
The change happened before the forum opened. The discussion was back on the email list. If anyone had an archive, they could search it.

It might be somewhere in my gmail. I'll try to look it up.

Edit: I think this is it but I'm not sure.

Quote
In my interpretation of events: Infiltrators were not intended to be the ninjas
that most people considered them to be. When Infiltrator stopped being a class
and became a subclass instead, the class changed to reflect this concept. No
longer are they invisible ninjas. They gained some abilities, and lost some
others.

Whether this change is good or bad depends on who you ask. I've never played
an infil either way, so I don't have any real experience with it.

and

Quote
This cannot be emphasized enough.

Infiltrators are not ninjas, and were never intended to be.  It is understandable that people make the mistake, given all the exposure we are given to the popular myth of the ninja, the silent assassin, the knife in the dark--but that is not what infiltrators are, or were ever meant to be.

There *are* some other proposed abilities for infiltrators that were talked about a while back, but shelved in favour of more important things, like reducing the bug count from (I think) over 300...

I'll see if Tom's interested in reviving some of these in the near-to-medium future; I think some of them would make people really happy with the infiltrator subclass again.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 03:10:06 PM by Fleugs »
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Jon Snow

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Re: Stealth mode for unitless infiltraitors
« Reply #14: January 07, 2013, 04:03:52 PM »
The change happened before the forum opened. The discussion was back on the email list. If anyone had an archive, they could search it.
:o That long ago? Wow.
If you do something and you are all alone in a region, then people will be able to connect the dots. You need to have plausible deniability if you want to operate in secret.

What exactly is plausible deniability? I read it a lot on the forums, but I didn't get it. Is it just RP related, like saying that you didn't do it or something?