Author Topic: Melees as a tournament event  (Read 7279 times)

Norrel

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Re: Melees as a tournament event
« Reply #15: January 12, 2013, 01:39:12 PM »
So how do they decide you're dead in those enactments?

Also, melees were not happening in the same time as the type of tournament we see in BM. I though the game's setting was more going to the Late Medieval period.

The game's basically an anachronism stew, as long as it's medieval it'll fly.
“it was never wise for a ruler to eschew the trappings of power, for power itself flows in no small measure from such trappings.”
- George R.R. Martin ; Melisandre

Kwanstein

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Re: Melees as a tournament event
« Reply #16: January 12, 2013, 04:19:17 PM »
It would still be hard to get up, but a fallen knight wouldn't be rendered as helpless as a turtle on it's back or anything. A suit of armor weighed between 40 and 60 lbs. So imagine getting up with that much extra weight. It will slow you down but it won't pin you to the ground.

Don't forget that the weight of the armour is distributed fairly evenly across the body, that the knights wearing it were buff and highly trained. I'm not sure if it would have even slowed them down.

Gustav Kuriga

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Re: Melees as a tournament event
« Reply #17: January 12, 2013, 04:27:57 PM »
I'm sure it would have slowed them down. Not to mention on a hot summer day, it would definitely be exhausting to wear. I'm not saying they couldn't move at all, otherwise it would never have been useful in combat. Just that it isn't the end all be all.

pcw27

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Re: Melees as a tournament event
« Reply #18: January 12, 2013, 05:40:00 PM »
Don't forget that the weight of the armour is distributed fairly evenly across the body, that the knights wearing it were buff and highly trained. I'm not sure if it would have even slowed them down.

Getting knocked down in combat is a bad thing to begin with. Anything that makes it harder to get up puts you in more danger.

Eldargard

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Re: Melees as a tournament event
« Reply #19: January 15, 2013, 10:38:33 AM »
As far as the armor goes, I am dubious of someone wearing true full plate being able to sprint and bounce around like those fellas did. Sure, they were not stuck in slow motion, but there was an impact to mobility. When I was in the Army I could distinctly recall being significantly hindered in full MOPP gear plus Kevlar vest, plus load bearing gear plus weapons. I was never in the best of shape, but good enough for Army standards. I am willing to bet that my accumulated gear weighed significantly less than full plate. Plus, I recall reading many books about knights and distinctly recall some mentioning the difficulty in gaining ones feet after being knocked down. I really wish I could reference specific titles! Perhaps this information IS out of date but it does not mean knights in full plate could sprint and bounce. I would love if you guys could reference your sources. I would love to read them!

As far as the melee goes, I have two points. First, the melee consisted of knights fighting knights. Not knights and their men-at-arms fighting knight and their men-at-arms. Each knight was a part of a team an few likely contributed towards victory via their skill of leadership. Second, while the knights were sorted into teams, the goal of most knights was to make money by capturing other knights and thus gaining ransom, armor, weapons, horses. The video posted was purely a team sport. There were no individual incentives that got in the way of pure teamwork. I imagine that a true melee, as I understand melees, involved some teamwork (not leadership work) and some questionable moves that focused on ensuring I would get a good haul for my efforts.


Draco Tanos

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Re: Melees as a tournament event
« Reply #20: January 15, 2013, 10:44:11 AM »
Actually, full plate tends to only weigh around 60 pounds and you'd have been training to wear it since your early teens.

And 60 pounds is a lot less than most full army kit.  Most full army kit is also quite bulky and not designed specifically for the wearer either.

Eldargard

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Re: Melees as a tournament event
« Reply #21: January 15, 2013, 12:02:08 PM »
I'll be danged. Pretty cool stuff. I also looked at Wikipedia and they clearly stated what you all mentioned. The armor was lighter than most expect. I would love to try some on and really FEEL what it was like. Too bad I am not rich!

pcw27

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Re: Melees as a tournament event
« Reply #22: January 17, 2013, 04:27:19 AM »
As far as the melee goes, I have two points. First, the melee consisted of knights fighting knights. Not knights and their men-at-arms fighting knight and their men-at-arms. Each knight was a part of a team an few likely contributed towards victory via their skill of leadership. Second, while the knights were sorted into teams, the goal of most knights was to make money by capturing other knights and thus gaining ransom, armor, weapons, horses. The video posted was purely a team sport. There were no individual incentives that got in the way of pure teamwork. I imagine that a true melee, as I understand melees, involved some teamwork (not leadership work) and some questionable moves that focused on ensuring I would get a good haul for my efforts.

I'm not claiming it's a historically accurate idea. Lots of things in the game aren't accurate.

I'll be danged. Pretty cool stuff. I also looked at Wikipedia and they clearly stated what you all mentioned. The armor was lighter than most expect. I would love to try some on and really FEEL what it was like. Too bad I am not rich!

The Higgins armory museum will sometimes let you try on a helmet gorget and breastplate.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2013, 04:29:42 AM by pcw27 »