Author Topic: Army War Chest Options  (Read 4813 times)

House Talratheon

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Army War Chest Options
« Topic Start: January 16, 2013, 02:19:32 PM »
Title: Army War Chest Options

Summary: Options for sponsors to allow the war chest distribution to be adjusted accordingly.

Details:
As it currently sits the war chest covers training, repairs, and sea travel by 50%. I propose to include options to include wages and perhaps even recruitment wages beyond that to also include the percentages therein. for example.

Sponsor - Duke Morguth:

Wages: 50%
Training: 50%
Repairs: 50%
Travel: 0%

Duke Morguth decides he doesn't feel like paying so much for the army, so he makes changes.

Wages: 25%
Training: 25%
Repairs: 25%
Travel: 0%


Benefits: More financial power to the sponsor i.e. good sponsor = greatly funded army. Due to options to spread funding to various expenditures armies would have the ability to field longer (though usually this is considered a bad thing) Also allows and encourages sponsors to be generally wealthy.

Possible Exploits: Only that a small army could be better funded than a large army and have a significant advantage.

vonGenf

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Re: Army War Chest Options
« Reply #1: January 16, 2013, 02:24:38 PM »
 I like the idea of using the chest for recruitment costs. It would not result in exploits because you still need to to move to the capital to recruit.

Paying wages from the war chest however would allow for the sponsor to sit in the capital and finance endless expeditions. I don't see that as a good thing either.
After all it's a roleplaying game.

Indirik

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Re: Army War Chest Options
« Reply #2: January 16, 2013, 02:52:42 PM »
Wages are intentionally a limiting factor in army travel and distance fighting ability. (As well as having that gold stolen by the enemy judge.) Despite which other options of this are considered, paying unit wages out of the war chest almost certainly will not be added.
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DamnTaffer

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Re: Army War Chest Options
« Reply #3: January 16, 2013, 02:57:13 PM »
Wages are intentionally a limiting factor in army travel and distance fighting ability. (As well as having that gold stolen by the enemy judge.) Despite which other options of this are considered, paying unit wages out of the war chest almost certainly will not be added.

I agree about paying wages but the rest of the suggestion seems fine

Bedwyr

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Re: Army War Chest Options
« Reply #4: January 16, 2013, 08:11:51 PM »
Wages are intentionally a limiting factor in army travel and distance fighting ability. (As well as having that gold stolen by the enemy judge.) Despite which other options of this are considered, paying unit wages out of the war chest almost certainly will not be added.

Agreed.  All the rest looks good, but not wage paying.
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fodder

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Re: Army War Chest Options
« Reply #5: January 16, 2013, 08:14:11 PM »
certainly wouldn't mind seeing sea travel disabled, for example... not least because my wealthy hero with 80 sf drains the budget a bit i would think.

not sure about the recruitment part..
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Gustav Kuriga

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Re: Army War Chest Options
« Reply #6: January 16, 2013, 08:40:32 PM »
Perhaps allow the sponsor to choose whether to support sea travel and recruitment, but the minimum support for the war chest always being repairs.

Eldargard

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Re: Army War Chest Options
« Reply #7: January 16, 2013, 09:46:55 PM »
Why not just allow complete customization? Let the sponsor chose how much of what they want to pay from the war chest. It would certainly make some armies more desirable than others. Besides, this is a broad stroke thing. If the sponsor wants to pay fro 100% of recruitment, they will be paying for the neighboring dukes SF's if he is in the army as well as the new knights awesome archers.

Recruitment: 0-100%
Training: 0-100%
Repairs: 0-100%
Travel: 0-100%

Dante Silverfire

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Re: Army War Chest Options
« Reply #8: January 17, 2013, 03:44:28 AM »
Why not just allow complete customization? Let the sponsor chose how much of what they want to pay from the war chest. It would certainly make some armies more desirable than others. Besides, this is a broad stroke thing. If the sponsor wants to pay fro 100% of recruitment, they will be paying for the neighboring dukes SF's if he is in the army as well as the new knights awesome archers.

Recruitment: 0-100%
Training: 0-100%
Repairs: 0-100%
Travel: 0-100%

The problem with allowing this is that abuses are very easy.

Realms could simply funnel all of their realm gold into the hands of one person and have him cover 100% of all expenses at all times. That leaves much to be desired about the system if someone chooses to do so.
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Penchant

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Re: Army War Chest Options
« Reply #9: January 17, 2013, 04:59:38 AM »
The problem with allowing this is that abuses are very easy.

Realms could simply funnel all of their realm gold into the hands of one person and have him cover 100% of all expenses at all times. That leaves much to be desired about the system if someone chooses to do so.
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Eldargard

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Re: Army War Chest Options
« Reply #10: January 17, 2013, 06:10:38 AM »
The problem with allowing this is that abuses are very easy.

Realms could simply funnel all of their realm gold into the hands of one person and have him cover 100% of all expenses at all times. That leaves much to be desired about the system if someone chooses to do so.

How would a nation doing so benefit? I am not saying they won't, I just can not see it yet. They would have to tax all the knights at %100, and all lords at %100. How many knights and lords are willing to submit to that for the good of the realm? Or they could demand that all nobles send all extra gold to Duke X. Once again, what are the chances that they are ALL ok with that. Then, assuming they are all OK with it, how will that give an unfair advantage to the realm?

Psyche

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Re: Army War Chest Options
« Reply #11: January 17, 2013, 06:41:19 AM »
This, at least in some aspects, seems to set people up for a military realm the likes of what everyone on the forum used to complain about concerning Aurvandril(sp?).

I do like some aspects of it, but I would have to suggest capping it to 100% TOTAL.

Example:
50% repairs
25% travel
25% not budgeted towards anything
----------------
100% total

This would allow a sponsor to customize what he wishes to support, without making it some wonderfully overpowered army for wealthy sponsors.  This doesn't stop him from just switching percentages after orders to refit, or board ships, or whatever, but it does draw a line.  With that said, it might be wise to avoid that sort of behavior by making it so that the funding can only be reallocated once a week; though, this too could be worked around by switching armies.

This model would also encourage specialized armies.
Your realm has an army of newcomers?  You might look for heavy budgeting towards training.
Have a long distance campaign army?  Have their travel expenses paid for; When they return, set them up for repairs and/or recruitment.

It provides a lot of opportunities, but it would require some new regulations to how sponsors are restrained from switching allocations too often as well, and how frequently you can switch armies.

Alternatively, you could make it a one time established allocation when the army is founded; with existing army sponsors having the option to make the one time change.  Even then, though, is costs only a small amount to found a new army.


Overall, as great as the idea sounds, over all it is too hard to properly balance so that a wealthy noble can't just take advantage of the system six ways from Sunday.  Not without making some actions an abuse of game mechanics, at least.  In my opinion, though, a feature that you have to add a bunch of rules for GMs to enforce in order to keep the balance just isn't moving us anywhere positive.

Dante Silverfire

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Re: Army War Chest Options
« Reply #12: January 17, 2013, 07:28:04 AM »
how will that give an unfair advantage to the realm?
This:
This, at least in some aspects, seems to set people up for a military realm the likes of what everyone on the forum used to complain about concerning Aurvandril(sp?).

Is the problem.

I am also not interested in fully detailing what is a possible exploit in case such a feature is implemented. No need to give ideas.
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Eldargard

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Re: Army War Chest Options
« Reply #13: January 17, 2013, 08:45:22 AM »
The realm does not gain more gold or nobles. For such an 'exploit' to work it requires everyone's co-operation.  Oh, and it is BAD but we will not prove it because we are to high and mighty and must not prove anything. We say it is bad and so it is.

OK. So be it.

Dante Silverfire

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Re: Army War Chest Options
« Reply #14: January 17, 2013, 02:04:49 PM »
The realm does not gain more gold or nobles. For such an 'exploit' to work it requires everyone's co-operation.  Oh, and it is BAD but we will not prove it because we are to high and mighty and must not prove anything. We say it is bad and so it is.

OK. So be it.

Its common practice to not post exploits on the forums, beyond the basic explanation I gave. If the devs want a more in-depth look at my opinions on an exploit I'm willing to send it to them privately.

I like the idea of war chest options, but limiting it to specific percentages such as 50% is very much needed. If you let those percentages go too high then realms like Aurvandil with extremely high levels of cooperation (that dwarfs their neighbors) gain a huge advantage. While some may not see this as a problem, others do, including myself.
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