Religion Feature Request: Report Heresy

[Vellos]

A variant faith is, ipso facto, heretical in the first place.

um, no?

Variant is a friendly setting.

[Penchant]

um, no?

Variant is a friendly setting.

Variant is a variant and nothing else is otherwise predetermined. SA has seen variants they seem to similar to them as heretical. An example is the Blood Fruit Cult thing (I have a bad memory at times), where SA activists were trying to have a crusade declared based on Glaumring's original description where it was basically SA but with eating Blood fruit, which gave you powers.

[Vellos]

Variant is a variant and nothing else is otherwise predetermined. SA has seen variants they seem to similar to them as heretical. An example is the Blood Fruit Cult thing (I have a bad memory at times), where SA activists were trying to have a crusade declared based on Glaumring's original description where it was basically SA but with eating Blood fruit, which gave you powers.

It's declared as "Ignore," not Variant.

Variant's effects on conversion are not at all like those of misguided or evil. You can't persecute them either.

If you're using variant as a hostile setting, you;re very confused.

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Point is, sure, limit heresy reports to members of the religion. But be absolutely sure it can still cover PRIVATE messages between members of a religion.

[Penchant]

It's declared as "Ignore," not Variant.

Variant's effects on conversion are not at all like those of misguided or evil. You can't persecute them either.

If you're using variant as a hostile setting, you;re very confused.

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Point is, sure, limit heresy reports to members of the religion. But be absolutely sure it can still cover PRIVATE messages between members of a religion.

I said it was considered a variant based on Glaumring's description but moving on. Variants effect on conversion should be easier because hostile or otherwise you only have to convince them on a lot less points because their regular priest does half the work for you. Also, just because the game doesn't currently allow persecution of variants doesn't mean they shouldn't allow it though if you do consider the variant faith heretical I would most likely declare it evil anyways.

[vonGenf]

Possible Exploits:
A cabal of elders with a political agenda could repeatedly report one person's messages as vulgar, and repeatedly orchestrate their being ruled as such. On the one hand, this would be cool– you could basically vaporize a person's reputation if they were heretical by having a monopoly on the elders. On the other hand, that would discourage powerful characters from joining religions, and just be grossly unfair.

The obvious solution to that would be to leave the religion that keeps declaring you a heretic. Basically, I think the protection against such an exploit works like this: you shouldn't lose H/P so fast that you don't have the time necessary to travel to a temple and leave the religion before it seriously hurts you.

No more than one H/P hit per week seems sufficient. If you go on a spree and send a bunch of heretical messages on a single day, you don't get one hit per message, you get one hit for the whole thing.

From a RP and gameplay perspective, I really like the idea.

[Bedwyr]

The obvious solution to that would be to leave the religion that keeps declaring you a heretic. Basically, I think the protection against such an exploit works like this: you shouldn't lose H/P so fast that you don't have the time necessary to travel to a temple and leave the religion before it seriously hurts you.

No more than one H/P hit per week seems sufficient. If you go on a spree and send a bunch of heretical messages on a single day, you don't get one hit per message, you get one hit for the whole thing.

From a RP and gameplay perspective, I really like the idea.

Agreed, that's simple enough.  Steady loss should be possible, not rapid.  And if you can stab/capture/otherwise prevent someone from reaching a temple for a long time, while holding the Elders of a religion in a lock, then I think you deserve to destroy someone's reputation one nibble at a time.

[Vellos]

Agreed, that's simple enough.  Steady loss should be possible, not rapid.  And if you can stab/capture/otherwise prevent someone from reaching a temple for a long time, while holding the Elders of a religion in a lock, then I think you deserve to destroy someone's reputation one nibble at a time.

Aye.

So you can't be punished for heresy more than once a week.

That seems pretty fair.

I'll add it to the proposal.

[dustole]

Why is this necessary?  There are already ways for Elders to punish members.  Kicking them out or fining them weekly...  If there is no way for a religion to grant you H/P why should there be a mechanic for them to take it away?

I would rather see schisms coded before something like this.

[Stabbity]

Because most faiths in the game don't have the secular governments under lock and key. It isn't to say they aren't influential and powerful, its just that especially outside DWI most judges go out of their way to keep church and state seperated. Its a good system which will encourage more religious activity and RP. I like it. And from a layman's point of view, much easier and quicker to put together than schisms.

[Vellos]

Why is this necessary?  There are already ways for Elders to punish members.  Kicking them out or fining them weekly...  If there is no way for a religion to grant you H/P why should there be a mechanic for them to take it away?

I would rather see schisms coded before something like this.

Because this gives a natural way of creating functional in-game doctrines without some arbitrary system. It's not about punishing members, per se.

[Vellos]

In light of recent discussions of ways to improve religion, I'm gonna cast a spell of necromancy on what I still think is a good idea.

And my other religion proposals too.

Because these never really got a clear response from the Devs.

[Stabbity]

A variant faith is, ipso facto, heretical in the first place.

Not necessarily. Methodists don't believe Baptists are heretical for example. Misguided perhaps.