Author Topic: Exile - Last Ditch Effort or Self Infliction?  (Read 29507 times)

Solari

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Re: Exile - Last Ditch Effort or Self Infliction?
« Reply #15: January 30, 2013, 11:28:36 PM »
I often wonder if any of that crowd managed to slip through our net. I'm sure some have... it's the only thing that really gets Hireshmont looking over his shoulder from time to time.

I think there are two or three others that eventually left Solaria and Luria in general for other parts. Oh well. The problem wasn't with the group, per se. It was with the sharing of sensitive information.

Ironsides

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Re: Exile - Last Ditch Effort or Self Infliction?
« Reply #16: January 30, 2013, 11:34:49 PM »
Now that everyone understands what exile does and does not do, I expect (hope, really) that when it is used, it's used on people who can't afford to wait it out or aren't prone to griefing. Example: Malus was going to use it on those people from the Huntsmen of Noble Right, but then I read the details and sized up the will of the competition and wrote it off as suicidal.

Doesn't really sound like a worthwhile option then.

Other than a self destructive exile attempt, what else could a ruler, or anyone for that matter, do against a duke?

I am, unfortunately, unlearned in the Lurian arts...this forum post woul be a good place to list alternatives since exile proved bust
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Scarlett

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Re: Exile - Last Ditch Effort or Self Infliction?
« Reply #17: January 30, 2013, 11:46:00 PM »
I've never once found a use for the exile button.

It has proved functionally easier in the past to either buy off inconvenient Dukes or else plan for the secession you'd face for banning them in advance, e.g. wait for them to be absent or get your military in their city and then ban them.

Historically the only way you could 'un-Duke' somebody would be to arrest them for treason, and even then you'd have to catch them off guard. You'd probably end up fighting over it a bit on the field anyhow.

Gabanus family

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Re: Exile - Last Ditch Effort or Self Infliction?
« Reply #18: January 31, 2013, 01:31:08 AM »
Another option is to hire a really good infil and have him stab the Duke in question. Doesn't always work, but sometimes they are wounded so long (especially once they're older) that they loose their position if I'm not mistaking.

Another option, make sure the duke gets captured in battle^^
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Woelfy

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Re: Exile - Last Ditch Effort or Self Infliction?
« Reply #19: January 31, 2013, 01:41:37 AM »
Considering in this particular instance the ruler who clicked the 'exile' option has less H/P than the target, I am going to say this was a large mistake on the rulers part.

I myself have never bothered using exile, as the gains don't outweigh the risks. Thought about it several times in Solaria, and definitely thought about it in Swordfell, but I can't see a situation where it would be a clean break. The exiled person really has no motivation to leave, and plenty of motivation to stay and watch the Ruler suffer.

Luria is a prime example of how to deal with undesirables, there are more ways to chase someone off used in Luria in 12 months than the rest of the game put together for the same period of time. Dukes pose a special problem compared to most, and a royal duke even moreso.

Perth

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Re: Exile - Last Ditch Effort or Self Infliction?
« Reply #20: January 31, 2013, 08:55:08 AM »
The one time I've seen exile used it was on a Knight who just decided to stick around and not leave and it resulted in the King having to resign his position because of the loss of H/P.
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Ketchum

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Re: Exile - Last Ditch Effort or Self Infliction?
« Reply #21: January 31, 2013, 10:21:43 AM »
There, fixed that for you.
Hehe, that is right :)

The one time I've seen exile used it was on a Knight who just decided to stick around and not leave and it resulted in the King having to resign his position because of the loss of H/P.
So the lessons learnt is never ever mess with someone unless you come prepare with lot of H/P 8)

I think it describes pretty well. Who can last longer in the realm, who has more H/P, and somebody who have lot of H/P to lose.
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Chenier

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Re: Exile - Last Ditch Effort or Self Infliction?
« Reply #22: January 31, 2013, 12:46:31 PM »
Also, don't exile someone you can ban. I've seen it happen on BT, it was pretty stupid. Guy just couldn't wait for the guy to get banned, so he exiled him "in the meanwhile", and then learned the hard way that someone who is exiled can't be banned. Lucky for him the exile glitched and ended on its own, though...
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Solari

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Re: Exile - Last Ditch Effort or Self Infliction?
« Reply #23: January 31, 2013, 06:18:45 PM »
Sidebar for Ironsides: If you want to punish a Duke, work on his or her vassals. Get them to join another duchy. Create a new Duchy out of his city, and appoint your own lackeys to any regions in his former duchy with vacancies. Create a new duchy out of his city, and then stab him and appoint yourself Duke and Margrave. Sure, it is hard to get rid of a Duke in certain realm configurations... but do you remember how hard it used to be? Dukes own the means of production. Totally. They can even choose to reserve some of that production (land) for themselves to enhance their power further. Generally speaking, rulers have given it all away in fief to dukes.

Woelfy

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Re: Exile - Last Ditch Effort or Self Infliction?
« Reply #24: January 31, 2013, 06:27:10 PM »
Solari: with the current situation, your plan would only work so far. A new Duchy in BR is impossible, from what I have seen, although I could very well be mistaken on that. Sevastian holds BR and his Ducal seat with a death grip.

Malus pretty much handed it to Sevastian on a silver platter, it'll take more than utilization of game mechanics to convince him to give it up, if anything can.

Exiling a Royal Duke = a very dangerous act. In coming days, we shall see why.

Chenier

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Re: Exile - Last Ditch Effort or Self Infliction?
« Reply #25: January 31, 2013, 10:56:11 PM »
You can still try to convince everyone else to join another duchy. Being duke means squat if you have no vassal lords.
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Woelfy

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Re: Exile - Last Ditch Effort or Self Infliction?
« Reply #26: January 31, 2013, 11:07:03 PM »
Being Duke means appointing Lords, though, and that loyalty/oath is pretty big, to a normal player.

I've found it safe to assume that every Duke has a powerbase of loyal vassals to draw on. Convincing them to join a seperate cause is the only way to really undermine that duke, but it's extremely difficult to Do so.

Solari

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Re: Exile - Last Ditch Effort or Self Infliction?
« Reply #27: January 31, 2013, 11:22:25 PM »
Solari: with the current situation, your plan would only work so far. A new Duchy in BR is impossible, from what I have seen, although I could very well be mistaken on that. Sevastian holds BR and his Ducal seat with a death grip.

Malus pretty much handed it to Sevastian on a silver platter, it'll take more than utilization of game mechanics to convince him to give it up, if anything can.

Exiling a Royal Duke = a very dangerous act. In coming days, we shall see why.

So that everyone is on the same page, I'm not taking sides in this (OOC). IC is another matter. I imagine that from the perspective of Malus (and MANY), Bowie is the Troll/Scourge of Dwilight, and anyone that hitched his or her horse to that wagon is a short-sighted fool. Entertaining? Absolutely. Prone to firing too early and too often? Unquestionably.

Having said that, I agree that Swordfell's unique geography poses a problem for all involved. I was offering generalized advice. I honestly don't know how I boule resolve the situation in Swordfell, short of annexing it if I were Morek and creating an Astroist colony out of the faithful across Dwilight.

Hint: you may find support for this idea in the unlikeliest of places.  ;)



Chenier

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Re: Exile - Last Ditch Effort or Self Infliction?
« Reply #28: January 31, 2013, 11:25:26 PM »
Being Duke means appointing Lords, though, and that loyalty/oath is pretty big, to a normal player.

I've found it safe to assume that every Duke has a powerbase of loyal vassals to draw on. Convincing them to join a seperate cause is the only way to really undermine that duke, but it's extremely difficult to Do so.

Appointing power only matters if you have regions in your duchy. Sevastian's vassals being Lurian (I suppose) probably helps their loyalty to him, but I've otherwise not found it to be that hard in most cases to convince lords to change duchies.

So that everyone is on the same page, I'm not taking sides in this (OOC). IC is another matter. I imagine that from the perspective of Malus (and MANY), Bowie is the Troll/Scourge of Dwilight, and anyone that hitched his or her horse to that wagon is a short-sighted fool. Entertaining? Absolutely. Prone to firing too early and too often? Unquestionably.

Having said that, I agree that Swordfell's unique geography poses a problem for all involved. I was offering generalized advice. I honestly don't know how I boule resolve the situation in Swordfell, short of annexing it if I were Morek and creating an Astroist colony out of the faithful across Dwilight.

Hint: you may find support for this idea in the unlikeliest of places.  ;)


All the anti-Sevastian people have to do is ask Morek to conquer regions from them which are under Sevastian's power, and then have Morek give them back when the situation is deemed satisfactory.
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Geronus

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Re: Exile - Last Ditch Effort or Self Infliction?
« Reply #29: February 01, 2013, 05:50:26 AM »
I just went through these in the Banning Royals thread, but here are a number of steps to take to get rid of a troublesome Duke:

1. Dissolve his duchy.

2. If he rules a city, stop selling him food and wait for the peasantry to toss him out on his butt. This is inevitable if you can make the food embargo stick.

3. Put a huge bounty on him and/or directly recruit infiltrators to attack him while promising them amnesty if they get caught.

4. In conjunction with stabbings, sick a priest/diplomat on his region to destroy morale and loyalty while he's (hopefully) wounded and hope the peasants toss him out.

5. Get a priest to auto da fe the bastard multiple times until one sticks.

6. Fine him into oblivion.

7. Tax him into oblivion.

8. Give his region away to another realm.

9. Ban him while he's away from his region, wounded, or otherwise unable to secede.

So yeah, those are just a handful of ideas. Get creative. Dukes are not untouchable. If you have enough support, most of the above options should be available to you. If you don't, you've got no business moving against that Duke in the first place.