Author Topic: Exile - Last Ditch Effort or Self Infliction?  (Read 11307 times)

Vellos

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Re: Exile - Last Ditch Effort or Self Infliction?
« Reply #30: February 01, 2013, 07:25:59 AM »
I just went through these in the Banning Royals thread, but here are a number of steps to take to get rid of a troublesome Duke:

1. Dissolve his duchy.


How does this work, exactly?

Can a ruler just unilaterally eliminate a duchy? That still wouldn't remove him as lord of course, but I'd be surprised if rulers had that kind of one-click power to prevent a secession.

I just went through these in the Banning Royals thread, but here are a number of steps to take to get rid of a troublesome Duke:

2. If he rules a city, stop selling him food and wait for the peasantry to toss him out on his butt. This is inevitable if you can make the food embargo stick.

4. In conjunction with stabbings, sick a priest/diplomat on his region to destroy morale and loyalty while he's (hopefully) wounded and hope the peasants toss him out.

5. Get a priest to auto da fe the bastard multiple times until one sticks.

6. Fine him into oblivion.

7. Tax him into oblivion.

Or a very simple combination of these.

Ask yourself, "What is the must frustrating part of Dwilight?"

Answer: everything goes rogue.

Solution: drive the region rogue.

How?
1. Tax him massively/exile him so he can't add militia
2. Stop defending his region
3. Use priests/ambassadors to screw up his region
4. Don't sell him food
5. Find allies abroad to come and sit in his region to loot it repeatedly

Starvation, political meddling, and an enemy army burning the region down will drive it rogue, and it probably wouldn't even take THAT long. Though I guess BR probably has a food surplus, so starvation may not work.

Actually... can you loot your own realm?
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Penchant

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Re: Exile - Last Ditch Effort or Self Infliction?
« Reply #31: February 01, 2013, 07:30:09 AM »
How does this work, exactly?

Can a ruler just unilaterally eliminate a duchy? That still wouldn't remove him as lord of course, but I'd be surprised if rulers had that kind of one-click power to prevent a secession.

Or a very simple combination of these.

Ask yourself, "What is the must frustrating part of Dwilight?"

Answer: everything goes rogue.

Solution: drive the region rogue.

How?
1. Tax him massively/exile him so he can't add militia
2. Stop defending his region
3. Use priests/ambassadors to screw up his region
4. Don't sell him food
5. Find allies abroad to come and sit in his region to loot it repeatedly

Starvation, political meddling, and an enemy army burning the region down will drive it rogue, and it probably wouldn't even take THAT long. Though I guess BR probably has a food surplus, so starvation may not work.

Actually... can you loot your own realm?
None of this will work against Sevastion. None. This is why I hate the exile feature. He has been exiled, so now he just waits a while and Abbigail is no longer ruler and he gets to stay because he is iron-willed.

Woelfy

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Re: Exile - Last Ditch Effort or Self Infliction?
« Reply #32: February 01, 2013, 07:42:22 AM »
None of this will work against Sevastion. None. This is why I hate the exile feature. He has been exiled, so now he just waits a while and Abbigail is no longer ruler and he gets to stay because he is iron-willed.

A. It's Sevastian.
B. You don't even play in Swordfell. So why do you care so bleeding much?
C. Being iron-willed is a good thing. Just because it's turned against 'your side' doesn't make it any less of a good thing.
D. There are plenty of ways Sevastian could be got rid of. I'm just not stupid enough to give you a list of his weaknesses. It's not my fault people can't seem to think outside of the box.

(and if anyone thinks that I didn't plan all of this out well in advance, you are blind. Why else be so obstinate about stepping down as Duke when he was asked to merge with Flowrestown? Why pushing the idea of the capital switch and the blatant lie about 'exorbitant' transfer fees? Why do you think I fought so hard to be the seceding Duke? Royal status. Plain and simple. Swordfell's birth owes itself to Sevastian. I hadn't planned on the immediate outburst of childishness from Bowie and the subsequent events that have happened, but I made damn certain that it would be a nightmare if the Ruling Class ever turned against me. Welcome to Luria, n00bs.)
« Last Edit: February 01, 2013, 07:52:03 AM by Woelfy »
*[22:06] <+Wimpie> Lorgan: why did you kept your sister a secret? [22:07] <+Mustard> Cause Woelfy has a big penis
*[12:15] <Woelfy> if people don't expect me to be pulling the strings, they are stupid.
*[09:38] <+Penchant`> Woelfy feels like the devil because he is the devil of War Islands!

Sypher

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Re: Exile - Last Ditch Effort or Self Infliction?
« Reply #33: February 01, 2013, 07:50:06 AM »
Heh, well in the case of Swordfell, I would have explored other options before exiling him.  :P
I speak as someone who has had to play with difficult dukes. But, you can hike taxes to 50% (is that the cap?)

The capital of Swordfell is in Balance's retreat right? If the Courts of Iron duchy really doesn't want to be tied to the Courts of Stone can't it split off into its own realm?


Woelfy

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Re: Exile - Last Ditch Effort or Self Infliction?
« Reply #34: February 01, 2013, 07:53:23 AM »
Heh, well in the case of Swordfell, I would have explored other options before exiling him.  :P
I speak as someone who has had to play with difficult dukes. But, you can hike taxes to 50% (is that the cap?)

The capital of Swordfell is in Balance's retreat right? If the Courts of Iron duchy really doesn't want to be tied to the Courts of Stone can't it split off into its own realm?

Good call Sypher ;)
I believe it can split if it wants. I see no reason why it doesn't, if they are so angry about having Sevastian around. It's not like they had BR before Sevastian joined, or any of the regions commonly acknowledged as his domain.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2013, 08:13:56 AM by Woelfy »
*[22:06] <+Wimpie> Lorgan: why did you kept your sister a secret? [22:07] <+Mustard> Cause Woelfy has a big penis
*[12:15] <Woelfy> if people don't expect me to be pulling the strings, they are stupid.
*[09:38] <+Penchant`> Woelfy feels like the devil because he is the devil of War Islands!

Stabbity

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Re: Exile - Last Ditch Effort or Self Infliction?
« Reply #35: February 01, 2013, 10:47:10 AM »
The basis of the complaining I see here is that the Ruler and associated faction didn't understand what they were doing, didn't prepare, and then actively and openly moved against one of the most powerful persons in the realm without fully understanding what they were getting into and how to deal with it. This is a game about politics, and if you are going to have an internal power struggle, be prepared. Have contingency plans. Have contingency plans for those too. Throw money at people, that's one of my favorite ways to get things done.
Life is a dance, it is only fitting that death sing the tune.

Sypher

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Re: Exile - Last Ditch Effort or Self Infliction?
« Reply #36: February 01, 2013, 11:27:12 AM »
...
You can only dissolve an empty duchy so generally that wouldn't work very often as most(all?) Duke's are also region lords.

Also, can't loot in your own realm.
...
Interestingly, there are more options to use against Dukes now than there were when I last had a ruler. Before a Duke could make it so none of his income was taxable by the crown. Granted, I think that the tax rate applies to all the Duchies but I could see certain rulers still using that power to great effect to harm those Dukes he or she doesn't like while having ways to appease the other Dukes.

I can think of other ways a realm can make things unpleasant for someone they can't ban. Bankers and Judges have ways of 'encouraging' those individuals that might be friendly to the offending individual.

Chenier

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Re: Exile - Last Ditch Effort or Self Infliction?
« Reply #37: February 01, 2013, 01:06:11 PM »
You can only dissolve an empty duchy so generally that wouldn't work very often as most(all?) Duke's are also region lords.

Also, can't loot in your own realm.
...
Interestingly, there are more options to use against Dukes now than there were when I last had a ruler. Before a Duke could make it so none of his income was taxable by the crown. Granted, I think that the tax rate applies to all the Duchies but I could see certain rulers still using that power to great effect to harm those Dukes he or she doesn't like while having ways to appease the other Dukes.

I can think of other ways a realm can make things unpleasant for someone they can't ban. Bankers and Judges have ways of 'encouraging' those individuals that might be friendly to the offending individual.

Another realm could come loot it, however. Come to think, Morek wouldn't even need to declare war, it could just come down in BR and loot it rogue.

However, for the options listed Geronus, these don't really work when the guy is lord of the capital, and the capital happens to be a stronghold (which usually have food surpluses). Starving a region is also a hell of a lot more complicated now that the guy can simply go to another realm, receive tax in bonds, and use it to buy food.

However, the ruler could at least hike the ducal tax to a maximum, and manually give some back to the other duke(s). Similarly, everyone could drop a ton of militia in BR, right before taxes, and cause it to go bankrupt (loss of all infrastructure). Or simply to drain his financial resources.

Really sounds like you guys should have rebelled instead of protesting... Had you failed, I'm sure Morek could have forced you back in.

Geronus

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Re: Exile - Last Ditch Effort or Self Infliction?
« Reply #38: February 01, 2013, 03:37:54 PM »
Get Morek or Luria to loot the place into the Stone Age. I doubt Sevastian can afford much militia. Or, as I said before, get a friendly priest/diplomat to work some magic. Preferably after you pay someone to stab Sevastian so he can't fix the place back up. Or just auto da fe him. There are still plenty of workable options. Fine him into oblivion. Ban all his supporters. Bribe/threaten/cajole all his lords into changing Duchies.

Indirik

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Re: Exile - Last Ditch Effort or Self Infliction?
« Reply #39: February 01, 2013, 03:50:40 PM »
Can't use auto da fe without first getting him kicked out of the church. And then you'd need a priest to take the rap and the [email protected]#$ storm the church would throw at him for doing it.
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vonGenf

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Re: Exile - Last Ditch Effort or Self Infliction?
« Reply #40: February 01, 2013, 04:07:07 PM »
Can't use auto da fe without first getting him kicked out of the church. And then you'd need a priest to take the rap and the [email protected]#$ storm the church would throw at him for doing it.

Yep, he's got his base covered. But the game mechanics do allow that, it's not possible in this case because he planned ahead.

If the game mechanics were different, he would have planned differently.
After all it's a roleplaying game.

Woelfy

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Re: Exile - Last Ditch Effort or Self Infliction?
« Reply #41: February 01, 2013, 06:06:23 PM »
Yep, he's got his base covered. But the game mechanics do allow that, it's not possible in this case because he planned ahead.

If the game mechanics were different, he would have planned differently.

+1

Being married to a Light of the Church of SA helps too.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2013, 06:10:00 PM by Woelfy »
*[22:06] <+Wimpie> Lorgan: why did you kept your sister a secret? [22:07] <+Mustard> Cause Woelfy has a big penis
*[12:15] <Woelfy> if people don't expect me to be pulling the strings, they are stupid.
*[09:38] <+Penchant`> Woelfy feels like the devil because he is the devil of War Islands!

fodder

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Re: Exile - Last Ditch Effort or Self Infliction?
« Reply #42: February 01, 2013, 07:26:28 PM »
Quote
If they leave your realm--step outside your lands, I think, due to the "within the realm" phrase--then they become rogues.

eh... is that politically or geographically?
firefox

Geronus

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Re: Exile - Last Ditch Effort or Self Infliction?
« Reply #43: February 01, 2013, 07:53:05 PM »
Yep, he's got his base covered. But the game mechanics do allow that, it's not possible in this case because he planned ahead.

If the game mechanics were different, he would have planned differently.

BR is an SA region, eh? Interesting; I figured it would be some Lurian religion. Yeah, you won't be able to use those religious options unless you get an Elder on your side, someone willing to potentially take a bullet. What you need is for Allison Kabrinski to still be an Elder  ;D

Vellos

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Re: Exile - Last Ditch Effort or Self Infliction?
« Reply #44: February 01, 2013, 08:35:50 PM »
BR is an SA region, eh? Interesting; I figured it would be some Lurian religion. Yeah, you won't be able to use those religious options unless you get an Elder on your side, someone willing to potentially take a bullet. What you need is for Allison Kabrinski to still be an Elder  ;D

As I recall, Abbigal was a friend of Allison.

Honestly though, it seems to me that the best option is just to get Morek to come and burn BR to the ground.

I also like Chenier's infrastructure-overload idea. I can imagien the fury of a lord waking up to find that the rulers of the realm are stationing a permanent army in his city which he is expected to feed, supply, and pay.

But that wouldn't actually rogue the region or drive him out would it?
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