I figured out what is wrong with Trade...and how to fix it

[Dishman]

Indeed, for many realms, having food that is put on the market and not specifically destined for a particular region or small set of regions within their own realm is considered to be a security risk, or otherwise a bad thing.

Is there a way to sell to own-realm only or allied realms? I'm not too savvy on the actual putting up buy/sell offers.

The marketplace is not a rot-free zone. Food put up for sale that is not sold is subject to rot when it is returned to the warehouse.

So food is subject to retroactive rot if it is not sold? How about if it is sold?

[Anaris]

Is there a way to sell to own-realm only or allied realms? I'm not too savvy on the actual putting up buy/sell offers.

When an offer is put up, the Lord has the option of making it unrestricted, restricted to allies, or restricted to the realm.

However, I know for a fact that some realms intend certain offers to be for specific regions.

[Penchant]

When an offer is put up, the Lord has the option of making it unrestricted, restricted to allies, or restricted to the realm.

However, I know for a fact that some realms intend certain offers to be for specific regions.

That wouldn't ever happen to be possible to restrict to a certain region by the way?

[Penchant]

You are thinking backwards. The game shouldn't be changed to facilitate traders; traders should be changed to facilitate the game. Otherwise you wind up with a myriad of extraneous features, complicating the game for the sake of a class which exists solely for it's own sake.

As a reminder, the trader class' raison d'etre is that it serves to facilitate the exchange of food; food serves to curtail the independence of cities; cities serve to complicate fundamental matters of strategy, leading to deeper gameplay for all classes. The best improvement one could make to the trader, would be to strengthen it's bond in this relationship.

I disagree. The suggested new resources would help trading, but much more than that, they make mountains and woodlands actually have a purpose. Adding resources makes traders more useful as it allows more trade to happen. If you are referring to some suggesting traders to deal with npcs, I disagree with that too as traders should be trading with players not the game. Traders facilitating unique items isn't a bad idea though as there is supposed to eventually be a way to publicly sell unique items. Traders doing things with advys is a idea that would need to have more details for anyone to really have a valid opinion on it.

[Anaris]

That wouldn't ever happen to be possible to restrict to a certain region by the way?

No. The most restricted you can make it is to your realm.

[Kwanstein]

I'd imagine eventually people will start to balance things out.

That will never happen. Food trading is a simple chore which most people don't put much thought into, so you end up with what you've observed; people determining their prices on a whimsy, rather than through careful speculation. In order for prices to be appropriate with supply and demand there must be competence, and that is simply something that we don't have. Not to mention that the price range is heavily restricted and production and consumption are, for the most part, fixed.

I disagree. The suggested new resources would help trading, but much more than that, they make mountains and woodlands actually have a purpose. Adding resources makes traders more useful as it allows more trade to happen. If you are referring to some suggesting traders to deal with npcs, I disagree with that too as traders should be trading with players not the game. Traders facilitating unique items isn't a bad idea though as there is supposed to eventually be a way to publicly sell unique items. Traders doing things with advys is a idea that would need to have more details for anyone to really have a valid opinion on it.

All regions have a purpose, even the less important ones.

As for trading with adventurers, there is no need for that, so it would be a pointless addition.

[Azerax]

My character has been sought out on more than one occasion to help brokers trades because of his range.  Trader has become a 'building influence' position.  However, I don't enjoy it nearly as much as I did under the old system.

The simplest way to give Traders value is to give them food.  I'm sure the peasantry hold back certain things from the rulers, and a Traders influence may be able to unlock those (food storage).  If there was some sort of system were a Trader had a small stash they could draw upon (50-100 units?) then this makes the Trader suddenly very important to regions in deficit.  This stash could be calculated daily and be based on their trading skill.

[Indirik]

The trading game right now, at least on EC, is pointless. I would venture that it is pretty much the same on FEI and Dwilight. Food for sale on the open market is few and far between, and usually priced very high, whereas buy offers are very low.

[Chenier]

You are thinking backwards. The game shouldn't be changed to facilitate traders; traders should be changed to facilitate the game. Otherwise you wind up with a myriad of extraneous features, complicating the game for the sake of a class which exists solely for it's own sake.

As a reminder, the trader class' raison d'etre is that it serves to facilitate the exchange of food; food serves to curtail the independence of cities; cities serve to complicate fundamental matters of strategy, leading to deeper gameplay for all classes. The best improvement one could make to the trader, would be to strengthen it's bond in this relationship.

Yes and no. The trader game already exists and is justified by the existence of food. But food alone is not enough, imo, to make the priest game be on par with the rest.

This line of reflection does bring us to par with Tom's thought: is the existence of food in the game justified? Because food is just as justifiable as any other tradable resource.

[Azerax]

Removing food removes a source of great impact, especially during war.  It's a strategic resource.

If buy orders are few, then there is too much food.  Atamara is pretty lively and I can do multiple trades daily if I wanted to, though this may be war driven.

[Dishman]

The simplest way to give Traders value is to give them food.  I'm sure the peasantry hold back certain things from the rulers, and a Traders influence may be able to unlock those (food storage).  If there was some sort of system were a Trader had a small stash they could draw upon (50-100 units?) then this makes the Trader suddenly very important to regions in deficit.  This stash could be calculated daily and be based on their trading skill.

Second.

This isn't what is being worked on with the black market, is it?

[Azerax]

I don't think we have given it any real thought - the doctrine conversion is required to do anything and it's a lengthy process.

[Penchant]

The trading game right now, at least on EC, is pointless. I would venture that it is pretty much the same on FEI and Dwilight. Food for sale on the open market is few and far between, and usually priced very high, whereas buy offers are very low.

Yeah, I don't know about EC and FEI butt that's definetly true for Dwilight. D'hara's traders aren't really meant to broker trades but to run around the continent to buy food for the realm. I have had one instance where I brokered trades for Terran and then they sold me there extra for helping them out but that is about the only time my brokering ability actually mattered.

[Chenier]

Removing food removes a source of great impact, especially during war.  It's a strategic resource.

If buy orders are few, then there is too much food.  Atamara is pretty lively and I can do multiple trades daily if I wanted to, though this may be war driven.

Adding a resource would also have an impact, especially during war. Food is every bit as justifiable as "materials" (or metal/wood/stone).

Also, on Dwi, buy offers aren't the problem. It's sell offers. There are a whole lot of lords who just couldn't be arsed to put their excess food on the markets, and as such ridiculous amounts of food are wasted to rot, just because a whole lot of people couldn't be arsed and didn't care for extra profits.

And while I get that it was intended that some people might want to hold back food to hurt others, all of the people who hold back food just because they can't be arsed to give a damn are being a real drain on the trader game.

[Azerax]

Two words: Exploding Donkeys

I understand where you are coming from, I had that issue when the new system was put in place.  It took quite a bit of effort, I had to work with each individual Duke to get the food on the market, but in the end, it did.