Author Topic: exile  (Read 4184 times)

fodder

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exile
« Topic Start: January 31, 2013, 07:06:15 AM »
So, we know exile is a bit nerfed/more painless nowadays with how taxes work. so... any suggestions?

personally i still prefer there to be an option for characters to decide whether taxes come in bonds or gold whilst within realm... so if there's such a flag, an exiled character could have it flagged to bonds automatically. thus restoring the effect of the bank bar.
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Geronus

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Re: exile
« Reply #1: January 31, 2013, 11:27:28 PM »
So, we know exile is a bit nerfed/more painless nowadays with how taxes work. so... any suggestions?

personally i still prefer there to be an option for characters to decide whether taxes come in bonds or gold whilst within realm... so if there's such a flag, an exiled character could have it flagged to bonds automatically. thus restoring the effect of the bank bar.

How about exiled characters just don't get taxes? That was effectively how it worked back when you always got your taxes in bonds since you could no longer use the banks. Seems less complicated than having a setting.

Chenier

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Re: exile
« Reply #2: January 31, 2013, 11:30:38 PM »
How about exiled characters just don't get taxes? That was effectively how it worked back when you always got your taxes in bonds since you could no longer use the banks. Seems less complicated than having a setting.

Where does that gold go, though?

Alpha

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Re: exile
« Reply #3: February 01, 2013, 12:38:59 AM »
How about exiled characters just don't get taxes? That was effectively how it worked back when you always got your taxes in bonds since you could no longer use the banks. Seems less complicated than having a setting.

I don't like this. Lords collect taxes from their regions. So long as they remain Lords, they should be able to collect taxes.

Anaris

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Re: exile
« Reply #4: February 01, 2013, 12:48:03 AM »
I don't like this. Lords collect taxes from their regions. So long as they remain Lords, they should be able to collect taxes.

And Dukes collect taxes from Lords.

I don't think it's so very unreasonable if the taxes of someone who gets exiled get confiscated entirely by the person next up the chain.
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Chenier

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Re: exile
« Reply #5: February 01, 2013, 01:02:21 AM »
And Dukes collect taxes from Lords.

I don't think it's so very unreasonable if the taxes of someone who gets exiled get confiscated entirely by the person next up the chain.

I don't quite like it either.

What if all gold they get is received in bonds instead, then apply the standard old penalties? That way, if the lord wins, he gets to cash in all of his pretties.

Alpha

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Re: exile
« Reply #6: February 01, 2013, 02:14:23 AM »
And Dukes collect taxes from Lords.

I don't think it's so very unreasonable if the taxes of someone who gets exiled get confiscated entirely by the person next up the chain.

Lords send a portion of the taxes collected to the Duke, but the Duke doesn't stand between that Lord and the taxes of his region. The crown's purse isn't filled before the Duke's.

 I could see giving Lords the option to pay their Duke's share directly to the King, if that Duke is exiled.

Geronus

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Re: exile
« Reply #7: February 01, 2013, 06:04:32 AM »

Lefanis

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Re: exile
« Reply #8: February 01, 2013, 06:20:36 AM »
Because the Lord can't win. Exile is not reversible.

It is, if ruler steps down or otherwise loses his title.
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Dante Silverfire

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Re: exile
« Reply #9: February 01, 2013, 06:37:23 AM »
And Dukes collect taxes from Lords.

I don't think it's so very unreasonable if the taxes of someone who gets exiled get confiscated entirely by the person next up the chain.

The problem with that train of thought is that the entire point of the new estate system is that it emphasizes how each portion of the hierarchy is important. Rulers couldn't just confiscate taxes from their Dukes. Dukes would be the ones giving taxes to the rulers. Sure, Rulers can ask for higher taxes, but that doesn't mean they automatically get the gold.

I like the idea of simply making them bonds as it is and preventing the exile from gaining the gold. That way if the ruler wins, the bonds go to them, but if the exile wins they keep the bonds.
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Re: exile
« Reply #10: February 01, 2013, 04:28:17 PM »
Well, exile is basically trying to remove someone from that hierarchy, so I don't really see your point Dante.

vonGenf

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Re: exile
« Reply #11: February 01, 2013, 04:33:56 PM »
The thing is, if the Lords want to step sending their taxes to their Dukes, they can switch duchy easily. Those who stay make a conscious choice to keep their allegiance to an exiled Duke (and, frankly, should be banned). All the gold he gets is either from his own region or from people who want to send him gold.

Even before the change, I believe you received your tax in gold as long as you were within your own Duchy, right? All the new system does is that it doesn't restrict the exlie's freedom of movement so much.
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Dante Silverfire

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Re: exile
« Reply #12: February 01, 2013, 08:25:20 PM »
Well, exile is basically trying to remove someone from that hierarchy, so I don't really see your point Dante.

Trying to remove someone from the hierarchy and actually doing so are two different things though.

If someone owns land and has lords who give him their fealty, then they get their taxes. No ruler ever could simply say, okay you're gone, and expect it to stick 100% without any dissent if a Lord had such popularity. (In this case, assuming Royal = popular, because the royalty thing never really existed IRL)
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fodder

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Re: exile
« Reply #13: February 01, 2013, 09:31:12 PM »
Quote
Even before the change, I believe you received your tax in gold as long as you were within your own Duchy, right? All the new system does is that it doesn't restrict the exlie's freedom of movement so much.

depends on how far back you go. once upon a time, all taxes came in bonds after all.

chenier did raise a point about trade being all done in bonds. so presumably it should also kill off access to markets (within realm anyway). do exiled people moving outside realm geographically go rogue? that's the thing i'm a bit confused about.
firefox

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Re: exile
« Reply #14: February 01, 2013, 10:07:06 PM »
Exile is the removal of all benefits of that society.

I would think the region loyalty might affect that, so perhaps an exiled person would find max 30% of the taxes - but that would quickly shrink if their region has a new lord.

Historically exile meant leaving the lands, or going to some backwater place, thus removing any chance of receiving income.