Author Topic: Banned for being inactive for 5 Days  (Read 10320 times)

Dante Silverfire

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Re: Banned for being inactive for 5 Days
« Reply #30: February 05, 2013, 09:20:00 PM »
I really don't know why people would want to ban characters like this. Maybe there was a time when, due to the tax system, they took money from other people, but that time is long gone. The game is pretty well designed so that they don't matter at all and can be safely ignored.

They do take tax from others. If they are holding an estate then they are taking taxes which would otherwise go to another knight or the lord.
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Vellos

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Re: Banned for being inactive for 5 Days
« Reply #31: February 05, 2013, 09:20:08 PM »
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Tom

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Re: Banned for being inactive for 5 Days
« Reply #32: February 05, 2013, 09:21:52 PM »
Tom, you have, at multiple times in the past, said that it is acceptable to ban characters who log in, but fail to follow orders.

This is why I asked.

They were clearly active and doing stuff. They were not banned for not doing anything, they were banned for misbehaviour. The IR does not give you the right to act in any way you like without consequences. Its intention is clearly explained - to make sure that OOC takes priority and nobody feels forced to log in if real life is more imporant.

If someone is active, you can ban them for the way they act. Not following orders is a perfectly acceptable ban reason, provided you've made sure that they could have, i.e. it's not just inactivity.

I think the IR is clear in that it refers to OOC activity, not IC activity. Your character does not have a right to be inactive. That's a right of the player, not the character.

Note that just logging in is not enough to establish someone is active in an OOC sense - we've stuff like the quick play link for a reason. That someone logged in yesterday only tells you they had enough time to click two links. But for any periods of reasonable length, you can assume that they had ample opportunity.

And last not least, playing with friends cuts both ways. If you get an important phone call during a board game, you tell the others to wait or go on without you, depending on how long you'll expect it to last.


Wow, that's a lot of words for a few simple facts.

tl;dr: The IR refers to OOC inactivity. If the players are clearly active, then an IC ban based on what their characters do or fail to do is perfectly acceptable.

Tom

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Re: Banned for being inactive for 5 Days
« Reply #33: February 05, 2013, 09:22:50 PM »
You don't have to take away their estates first.

No, you don't. But it's a very simple, very easy way to a) make sure the gold stays with nobles you want to have it and b) give them a kick that just might get them to speak up.

Tom

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Re: Banned for being inactive for 5 Days
« Reply #34: February 05, 2013, 09:23:07 PM »
I'm not really a Duke. I just play one on the internet.

This goes on Facebook right now as the quote of the week. :-)

Lavigna

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Re: Banned for being inactive for 5 Days
« Reply #35: February 05, 2013, 09:24:49 PM »
I really don't know why people would want to ban characters like this. Maybe there was a time when, due to the tax system, they took money from other people, but that time is long gone. The game is pretty well designed so that they don't matter at all and can be safely ignored.

This is somethng in which we agree and i won't deny i did not think of it.

But before i say anything more i want evidence my self from the player who reported me that he was actually working inside the realm and that he answered (even once) explaining his behaviour.
If i had to make the devil's advocate on my self i would even say that one can actually be limited even in messages he receives in order to not become a threat to the realm "spy-talking" but even then what is the point of keeping such a soldier in a realm?

I do not see why he has time to visit the bank but not the recruitment centers for example.He has time to actually walk through the city but not time to answer to his superiors and let them know he has issues that keep him from attending to realm matters.

Anyway, personaly as a Magistrate i can't come to a verdict on my self but i am 50/50 here till i see evidence from the other side proving me wrong , other than "i was inactive for 5 days" , yous tart a case , you better prove it. I said my reasons and i am ready to face their consequences whichever those are.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2013, 09:27:21 PM by Misericordia »
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Bael

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Re: Banned for being inactive for 5 Days
« Reply #36: February 05, 2013, 09:36:47 PM »
This is somethng in which we agree and i won't deny i did not think of it.

But before i say anything more i want evidence my self from the player who reported me that he was actually working inside the realm and that he answered (even once) explaining his behaviour.
If i had to make the devil's advocate on my self i would even say that one can actually be limited even in messages he receives in order to not become a threat to the realm "spy-talking" but even then what is the point of keeping such a soldier in a realm?

I do not see why he has time to visit the bank but not the recruitment centers for example.He has time to actually walk through the city but not time to answer to his superiors and let them know he has issues that keep him from attending to realm matters.

Anyway, personaly as a Magistrate i can't come to a verdict on my self but i am 50/50 here till i see evidence from the other side proving me wrong , other than "i was inactive for 5 days" , yous tart a case , you better prove it. I said my reasons and i am ready to face their consequences whichever those are.

I really wouldn't worry about said person providing any further proof. I doubt it will be forthcoming, somehow. They just wanted to complain about it and hopefully get someone in trouble...

Anaris

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Re: Banned for being inactive for 5 Days
« Reply #37: February 05, 2013, 09:39:58 PM »
I really don't know why people would want to ban characters like this.

I've already explained other possible dangers they can pose to the realm, vonGenf. Please address those if you want to argue against the actual points I've made, and not just against a straw man.

Gold isn't the only resource a realm has. Information, for one, can sometimes be far, far more valuable.
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Anaris

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Re: Banned for being inactive for 5 Days
« Reply #38: February 05, 2013, 09:40:53 PM »
This is why I asked.

They were clearly active and doing stuff. They were not banned for not doing anything, they were banned for misbehaviour. The IR does not give you the right to act in any way you like without consequences. Its intention is clearly explained - to make sure that OOC takes priority and nobody feels forced to log in if real life is more imporant.

If someone is active, you can ban them for the way they act. Not following orders is a perfectly acceptable ban reason, provided you've made sure that they could have, i.e. it's not just inactivity.

I think the IR is clear in that it refers to OOC activity, not IC activity. Your character does not have a right to be inactive. That's a right of the player, not the character.

Note that just logging in is not enough to establish someone is active in an OOC sense - we've stuff like the quick play link for a reason. That someone logged in yesterday only tells you they had enough time to click two links. But for any periods of reasonable length, you can assume that they had ample opportunity.

And last not least, playing with friends cuts both ways. If you get an important phone call during a board game, you tell the others to wait or go on without you, depending on how long you'll expect it to last.


Wow, that's a lot of words for a few simple facts.

tl;dr: The IR refers to OOC inactivity. If the players are clearly active, then an IC ban based on what their characters do or fail to do is perfectly acceptable.

Thanks, Tom.

I'm going to save the link to this post as one of my Useful BattleMaster Links, because there have been a number of times I've wished I could point someone to you saying exactly this.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Indirik

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Re: Banned for being inactive for 5 Days
« Reply #39: February 06, 2013, 04:02:54 AM »
I do not see why he has time to visit the bank but not the recruitment centers for example.
You do realize that everyone gets their taxes in gold, so long as they are in the realm, right?
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Chenier

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Re: Banned for being inactive for 5 Days
« Reply #40: February 06, 2013, 04:28:19 AM »
Past clarifications have said the following: Inactivity does not mean immune to persecution for failure to one's duties.

If a knight is just always straggling behind in movement, then sure, that's inactivity. If a knight never responds to letters, nor obeys any orders, then that's not inactivity. He might *also* be inactive, but his inactivity doesn't make him immune from reprisals for his other failings.

Lavigna

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Re: Banned for being inactive for 5 Days
« Reply #41: February 06, 2013, 09:05:52 AM »
You do realize that everyone gets their taxes in gold, so long as they are in the realm, right?

Of course and i realize that as i realize it also indicates he hasn't moved a  single finger outside the realm in order to either receive an amount in bonds or in case he did he cashed them.

I can't be entirely sure what orders he received in the length of 6 months that he was in the realm so i just pointed out as another example, i didn't base my ban entirely up to it. (he was searched by the king mostly for possible underground activity due to his suspicious silence and the amount of unused gold  was the only thing that popped up)

Anyway, needless to check every single point as i have messages that prove he was encouraged to explain himself multiple times and he didn't.If he refuses he received such letters i can prove him wrong, if he claims he has answered them then he better be ready to prove it as i am.
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Eldargard

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Re: Banned for being inactive for 5 Days
« Reply #42: February 06, 2013, 10:27:27 AM »
You do realize that everyone gets their taxes in gold, so long as they are in the realm, right?

I am not sure what tax rates are there but it is the lack of gold that suggests he had performed financial actions to me. Say he gains a lowly 50 gold per week and he has not spent a penny on troops the whole time (100 days):

100 days/7 = 14.29 weeks
14.29 weeks * 50 gold per week = 714.5 gold earned

I would assume that a noble with no troop expenses to have more than the 450 he did. He put that money somewhere. Into training, to his family, to other nobles, i have no idea. But he took the time to do that and not to respond.

Eldargard

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Re: Banned for being inactive for 5 Days
« Reply #43: February 06, 2013, 11:24:48 AM »
It really is a matter of taste and something that makes one realm different from the other. I think I would prefer to simply kick them from their estate as a first move. If I begin to suspect spying, then I would consider banning. Others might prefer to ban straight away. I do not see anything wrong with either approach.

Draco Tanos

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Re: Banned for being inactive for 5 Days
« Reply #44: February 06, 2013, 11:39:53 AM »
The problem with revoking the estates is that there is nothing to prevent them from snatching the estate right back up (unless the lord uses his or her hours to start destroying/re-partitioning estates, which may screw with their tax income in a negative way).  They could even wait until right before turn change and retake the estate (or another) to make sure they get the gold.

Not to mention that you KNOW they will leave the realm if they're banned.  If their estate is simply revoked, it may annoy them so that they DO start spying on the realm out of anger.