Author Topic: Vulgar?  (Read 31728 times)

Gustav Kuriga

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Re: Vulgar?
« Reply #15: February 09, 2013, 03:09:05 AM »
I can't believe that there are dozens of such messages exchanged daily. I've yet to see any, other than the one being discussed, and I've been playing for a year now. Even if this message were common, one would have to wonder what earned this case a distinction from the rest.

In the Western world, 'vulgar' is an uncommon term and isn't well understood at all. When you hear the term, which is on rare occasion, it's usually being associated with upper class Victorian society. A hapless child, in a period piece, will utter a dirty word in front of his strict parents, eliciting from them a sharp punishment accompanying a comment about 'vulgar children these days'.

Uhm... I'm in the Western world, and it is very much an everyday term, that is well understood. I don't think of upper class Victorian society or its values when it is used...

Velax

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Re: Vulgar?
« Reply #16: February 09, 2013, 03:11:06 AM »
I think people are missing what's actually going on. People don't give a crap what the vulgarity function is for, they just use it to hurt or get revenge on people or realms they don't like. And if the reported messages goes to enough people in realms who dislike the realm/side the message came from (which is often discernible from the message itself when dealing with insults in war), then they vote it vulgar.

Penchant

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Re: Vulgar?
« Reply #17: February 09, 2013, 03:12:18 AM »
I think people are missing what's actually going on. People don't give a crap what the vulgarity function is for, they just use it to hurt or get revenge on people or realms they don't like. And if the reported messages goes to enough people in realms who dislike the realm/side the message came from (which is often discernible from the message itself when dealing with insults in war), then they vote it vulgar.
That should not be an assumption, merely considered a possibility.
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Solari

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Re: Vulgar?
« Reply #18: February 09, 2013, 03:14:08 AM »
I can't believe that there are dozens of such messages exchanged daily. I've yet to see any, other than the one being discussed, and I've been playing for a year now. Even if this message were common, one would have to wonder what earned this case a distinction from the rest.

In the Western world, 'vulgar' is an uncommon term and isn't well understood at all. When you hear the term, which is on rare occasion, it's usually being associated with upper class Victorian society. A hapless child, in a period piece, will utter a dirty word in front of his strict parents, eliciting from them a sharp punishment accompanying a comment about 'vulgar children these days'.

Approximately 750-1000 players log in every day. "Offensive" letters, IC, are par for the course.

Kwanstein

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Re: Vulgar?
« Reply #19: February 09, 2013, 03:56:37 AM »
Uhm... I'm in the Western world, and it is very much an everyday term, that is well understood. I don't think of upper class Victorian society or its values when it is used...

What I mean is, if you asked someone to define the word they would give you a vague definition, along the lines of 'something offensive'. This very thread is proof of that, as many posters were unsure of it's exact meaning.

Approximately 750-1000 players log in every day. "Offensive" letters, IC, are par for the course.

We are discussing letters that are not only offensive but, well, vulgar as well. The letter in the opening post takes rape, sex, sexual attraction, reproduction and loads them all into an insult. That does not happen multiple times a day, to say the least.

Penchant

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Re: Vulgar?
« Reply #20: February 09, 2013, 04:08:53 AM »
What I mean is, if you asked someone to define the word they would give you a vague definition, along the lines of 'something offensive'. This very thread is proof of that, as many posters were unsure of it's exact meaning.

We are discussing letters that are not only offensive but, well, vulgar as well. The letter in the opening post takes rape, sex, sexual attraction, reproduction and loads them all into an insult. That does not happen multiple times a day, to say the least.
I can come up with plenty of examples for OOC vulgarity that is actual vulgarity as you are missing the explicit part. Offensive and happening have to sex things related to it does not make it vulgar. If vulgarity is IC, then that is not vulgar with definition of unbecoming of a noble because a noble would surely say that to an enemy noble they disgust.
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Kwanstein

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Re: Vulgar?
« Reply #21: February 09, 2013, 04:16:22 AM »
I can come up with plenty of examples for OOC vulgarity that is actual vulgarity as you are missing the explicit part. Offensive and happening have to sex things related to it does not make it vulgar. If vulgarity is IC, then that is not vulgar with definition of unbecoming of a noble because a noble would surely say that to an enemy noble they disgust.

Quote
ex·plic·it 
/ikˈsplisit/
Adjective
Stated clearly and in detail, leaving no room for confusion or doubt.

How was the letter unclear?

Penchant

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Re: Vulgar?
« Reply #22: February 09, 2013, 05:02:24 AM »
How was the letter unclear?
That may be the definition but as Tom is not one to base things off of dictionary definitions but societal definitions, IMO. Explicit with a societal definition would be something like language that graphically describes sexual content or violence. Also, by freedictionary.com a definition of explicit is:  b. Describing or portraying nudity or sexual activity in graphic detail. which is similar to what I stated. Basically, don't be pedantic about this.
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Kwanstein

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Re: Vulgar?
« Reply #23: February 09, 2013, 06:22:52 AM »
What do you mean by 'societal definition,' how does it differ from the dictionary definition? It's not like the people who write dictionaries are ivory tower intellectuals, transcribing esoteric knowledge while being totally disconnected from society. They base their definitions on the linguistic use of these words in modern times, so that they hold practical value in situations like this.

And I'm sorry for being a "pedant," but it's kind of necessary to define a term before discussing whether something meets the definition of it. Saying that you all know some vague 'societal definition' doesn't make what you're doing any less arbitrary. Suppose you declare that the letter in this case isn't vulgar -- what then? All you're doing is muddying the definition of the word, confusing everyone involved and leaving everyone else in the dark. It's not like many players will actually read this thread and come to the understanding that BM's definition of 'vulgar' is narrow, obtuse and largely unrelated to any other.

If you want to have a special definition for the word, that's your prerogative. But if you want people to understand what you mean, you're going to have to add a note in italics underneath it, explaining what you really mean. Simply brushing it aside on a forum, which most people don't frequent, is totally impractical.

Ironsides

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Re: Vulgar?
« Reply #24: February 09, 2013, 06:30:21 AM »
Quote
Etiquette Issue   (1 day, 14 hours ago)
One of your recent messages, reproduced below, has caused many raised eyebrows among your peers and fellow nobles agree that this way of talking is unbefitting of a noble. Your respect among the nobility falls, resulting in a loss of a point of honour.

The Message:

I've gone and done it again, University!

Come see the Flowrestown Theatre Company's newest stage play, "Too Hot to Trot." It is like a deformity you just can't look away from!

Bowie Ironsides
Knight of Flowrestown
Dean of History of Dwilight University

Is the word 'deformity' what's vulgar or were they referring to the content of the play itself?

If the latter, my response is, anyone ever see a George Carlin stand-up act? If you don't want to see it don't pay for it.
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Penchant

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Re: Vulgar?
« Reply #25: February 09, 2013, 06:32:11 AM »
What do you mean by 'societal definition,' how does it differ from the dictionary definition? It's not like the people who write dictionaries are ivory tower intellectuals, transcribing esoteric knowledge while being totally disconnected from society. They base their definitions on the linguistic use of these words in modern times, so that they hold practical value in situations like this.
Societal definition is for example the word dumb, the dictionary definition is someone who can not or chooses not to talk, while society would general use it as a synonym of stupid.

Quote
And I'm sorry for being a "pedant," but it's kind of necessary to define a term before discussing whether something meets the definition of it. Saying that you all know some vague 'societal definition' doesn't make what you're doing any less arbitrary. Suppose you declare that the letter in this case isn't vulgar -- what then? All you're doing is muddying the definition of the word, confusing everyone involved and leaving everyone else in the dark. It's not like many players will actually read this thread and come to the understanding that BM's definition of 'vulgar' is narrow, obtuse and largely unrelated to any other.
So when hear about explicit music you think the music is "Stated clearly and in detail, leaving no room for confusion or doubt."

Quote
If you want to have a special definition for the word, that's your prerogative. But if you want people to understand what you mean, you're going to have to add a note in italics underneath it, explaining what you really mean. Simply brushing it aside on a forum, which most people don't frequent, is totally impractical.
That I do agree with, which should be done in more places. Also, when I sent a message to Tom, I suggest that clarification also be posted as an announcement so all can see it.
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Penchant

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Re: Vulgar?
« Reply #26: February 09, 2013, 06:33:08 AM »
Is the word 'deformity' what's vulgar or were they referring to the content of the play itself?

If the latter, my response is, anyone ever see a George Carlin stand-up act? If you don't want to see it don't pay for it.
I have no idea whats supposedly vulgar in that though your analogy might not work. Was that through DU?
“The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.”
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Kwanstein

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Re: Vulgar?
« Reply #27: February 09, 2013, 06:35:53 AM »
Is the word 'deformity' what's vulgar or were they referring to the content of the play itself?

If the latter, my response is, anyone ever see a George Carlin stand-up act? If you don't want to see it don't pay for it.

Some of the content of the play itself is quite vulgar. For those who do not have the link:

Quote
The Tyrant of Stone kisses the skull. Slowly he begins to undress the skeleton when the curtains close on them. The audience can only hear:
TYRANT: Oh Gomes! Gomes! Yes, Gomes! That’s where I want it! You have such a hard bone, Gomes. Oh Gomes! Gomes! Gomes! Gomes! GOOOMMMEEESSSS! Aw, your marrow got all over me. You’re so bold. I love it.
The curtain opens and the audience sees the skull atop a pile of bone dust. The Tyrant of Stone is undressed down to his skivvies.

P.S. I should commend you on these plays you're doing. Vulgar or not I love them.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2013, 06:38:10 AM by Kwanstein »

Penchant

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Re: Vulgar?
« Reply #28: February 09, 2013, 06:44:20 AM »
Some of the content of the play itself is quite vulgar. For those who do not have the link:

P.S. I should commend you on these plays you're doing. Vulgar or not I love them.
Vulgarity is not based on if a wiki page is vulgar that your character included in a letter. Those who said it was vulgar may have, but i am quite sure its not meant to be. And yeah I love them too.
“The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.”
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Ironsides

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Re: Vulgar?
« Reply #29: February 09, 2013, 06:49:22 AM »
Yes it was in the University. I love marketing in that place. They're the best group around. If you've ever seen a George Carlin act they're very vulgar and offensive. People know that going in and that's why he was in show business for so long. So basically, if you don't like him or his style you don't have to pay to see him. Same with something Bowie produces. If the Demon of Dwilight is advertising a play he wrote and directed and you're not a fan of his style "of comedy" then don't watch his show. I never forced anyone to read it. And I do state it at the top that they are lampoons of a caricature. They're supposed to be outlandish like that.

Thank you guys for enjoying the show! That's why I put them on  ;D
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