Author Topic: Feature Request: Revise Bounty Board Fulfillment Requirements  (Read 8583 times)

Indirik

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You cannot assault someone who is already wounded.
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Bedwyr

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Would you mind expanding upon what actually happened? Was it simply the occurrence of an assassination attempt that caused the positive conflict? Or was it some feature related to the function of the assassination that helped the RP? There is a distinct difference there.

There was an assassination of the High King of Cathay while two known Soliferan infiltrators where in the region, right as Arcaea was heavily lobbying Cathay to switch sides or at least go more neutral, while Soliferum was on the brink of convincing Cathay to join the active fighting against Arcaea.  There was one Arcaean noble, who nobody had ever heard of, who had been previously announced as a forward scout to keep an eye on the Soliferan troop movements.  The attack first kept the Ruler of Cathay from signing an alliance and declaring war (might not have happened then, but I have reason to believe it was possible), and second convinced Cathay that Soliferum was ready to trample all over their rights to get what they wanted.  No one believed that with two well-known and skilled Soliferan infiltrators in the region that the nobody Arcaean could have done it, and none of Cathay's infils were around.

So, mechanically, the main thing was an attack that was not identified at a time when the most plausible attacker was from a hostile realm.  I will also note that no one, ever (not even Jenred) learned IC that this was not done by a Soliferan.  Even the Soliferan infils thought it could have been the other one.  I only learned years later OOC.  I'd always wondered why the hell Soliferum would take the risk.
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Indirik

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@Silverfire: well, have your ruler turn the capital city into a one-region duchy. Or, since you will be ruler soon, do it yourself. Then have his city starved and ambassador'ed into oblivion. And keep having him stabbed. It can work. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it can't happen. I know of two dukes who have lost duchies due to extended wounds in the past 4 or so months.
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Dante Silverfire

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There was an assassination of the High King of Cathay while two known Soliferan infiltrators where in the region, right as Arcaea was heavily lobbying Cathay to switch sides or at least go more neutral, while Soliferum was on the brink of convincing Cathay to join the active fighting against Arcaea.  There was one Arcaean noble, who nobody had ever heard of, who had been previously announced as a forward scout to keep an eye on the Soliferan troop movements.  The attack first kept the Ruler of Cathay from signing an alliance and declaring war (might not have happened then, but I have reason to believe it was possible), and second convinced Cathay that Soliferum was ready to trample all over their rights to get what they wanted.  No one believed that with two well-known and skilled Soliferan infiltrators in the region that the nobody Arcaean could have done it, and none of Cathay's infils were around.

So, mechanically, the main thing was an attack that was not identified at a time when the most plausible attacker was from a hostile realm.  I will also note that no one, ever (not even Jenred) learned IC that this was not done by a Soliferan.  Even the Soliferan infils thought it could have been the other one.  I only learned years later OOC.  I'd always wondered why the hell Soliferum would take the risk.

Bedwyr, the thing is that this attack was based entirely upon RP and the fun situation occurred not necessarily because of the ability for an attack to remove posts at all. It also has nothing to do with the bounty board, so its not really relevant to this proposal.

@Silverfire: well, have your ruler turn the capital city into a one-region duchy. Or, since you will be ruler soon, do it yourself. Then have his city starved and ambassador'ed into oblivion. And keep having him stabbed. It can work. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it can't happen. I know of two dukes who have lost duchies due to extended wounds in the past 4 or so months.

You're right, because having to give someone more power in order to remove power is clearly a balanced way for game mechanics to work. That sort of manipulation reeks of game mechanics abuse to me. That however is a topic primarily for my other thread. None of these situations give any credence into why the bounty board should not be made more meaningful. (or removed completely)
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Indirik

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None of these situations give any credence into why the bounty board should not be made more meaningful. (or removed completely)
"Because it doesn't do what I, personally, want it to do" is not a reason to remove it. There are infils (and non-infils) who have made a habit of knocking people off the bounty board. If these people are having fun, then what do you care if the bounty board isn't quite what you need to accomplish your goals? Let the people that use it have their fun.
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Chenier

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"Because it doesn't do what I, personally, want it to do" is not a reason to remove it. There are infils (and non-infils) who have made a habit of knocking people off the bounty board. If these people are having fun, then what do you care if the bounty board isn't quite what you need to accomplish your goals? Let the people that use it have their fun.

If the wound was intended, such as by an infil attack or by a duel, then it's all fine. Having gold wasted to flukes, however, like battle wounds... that just sucks. That is, unless having a bounty exposed a character to greater chances of wounds in battle... THAT would actually be nicer than having battle wounds not give any bounty gold at all.
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Indirik

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If the wound was intended, such as by an infil attack or by a duel, then it's all fine. Having gold wasted to flukes, however, like battle wounds... that just sucks.
I don't understand why the source of the wound matters. When you place a bounty, the intent is to get the character wounded. (And, yes, perhaps have it be bad enough that he loses his office.) Sure, you may feel like you wasted your gold, but one way or another you lost the gold the instant you set the bounty. If you're lucky, maybe some lucky warrior in your own realm got it. :)
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Dante Silverfire

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Indirik, my proposal seeks to improve the fun of these infiltrators not detract from it.

I believe the bounty board will be used more often with this change in place. This means higher bounties and more engagement opportunities by infiltrators.
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Dishman

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That is, unless having a bounty exposed a character to greater chances of wounds in battle... THAT would actually be nicer than having battle wounds not give any bounty gold at all.

I like this. It makes sense, too. Potential ransom's entice some folk to be opportunistic during battle. A huge bounty on someone's head would entice most folk to go the extra mile.
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Bedwyr

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Bedwyr, the thing is that this attack was based entirely upon RP and the fun situation occurred not necessarily because of the ability for an attack to remove posts at all. It also has nothing to do with the bounty board, so its not really relevant to this proposal.

The fun situation occurred because the infiltrator was mechanically un-identifiable, not because of any RP.  The fact that the infil picked the perfect time and place was brilliance.  Don't think the infiltrator ever said a word to anyone ever about it, so it's hard for me to see how it's based entirely on RP.

But that's also actually my point.  I don't see the bounty board as anything other than a vanity plate, something infamous people can brag about being on.  I fully agree it doesn't do anything particularly meaningful, because the only time assassinations are actually useful are when they are properly coordinated.  Having, for instance, the Ruler of Cathay wounded at a random time would have been pointless.
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Kwanstein

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The fun situation occurred because the infiltrator was mechanically un-identifiable, not because of any RP.  The fact that the infil picked the perfect time and place was brilliance.  Don't think the infiltrator ever said a word to anyone ever about it, so it's hard for me to see how it's based entirely on RP.

Politics in this game are driven by two things, role playing and prudence. Role playing in the sense that players give diplomatic consideration to events that don't necessarily affect the prudence of a matter. Prudence in the sense that, barring the influence of such aforementioned events, players engage in diplomacy in manners which they decide are most effective.

In the scenario you described, the infiltrator's attack did not affect matters of diplomatic prudence, thus the resulting diplomatic considerations paid to it can be classified as role playing. Therefore, it is entirely based on role playing.

Chenier

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I don't understand why the source of the wound matters. When you place a bounty, the intent is to get the character wounded. (And, yes, perhaps have it be bad enough that he loses his office.) Sure, you may feel like you wasted your gold, but one way or another you lost the gold the instant you set the bounty. If you're lucky, maybe some lucky warrior in your own realm got it. :)

Because you pay with the intent of provoking a wound that wouldn't have otherwise occured. You pay to create risk. And when a bounty is collected due to battle, not only have you failed to trigger a wound that wouldn't have otherwise happened, but the risk you created is terminated.

The gold is *spent* the moment you set the bounty, but if it triggers a wound that wouldn't have happened, then it paid off. Paying the bounty to flukes like battle wounds would be like giving the soldiers who got Ossama the bounty that was on his head: they were just doing their job, it makes no sense.
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Dante Silverfire

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Because you pay with the intent of provoking a wound that wouldn't have otherwise occured. You pay to create risk. And when a bounty is collected due to battle, not only have you failed to trigger a wound that wouldn't have otherwise happened, but the risk you created is terminated.

The gold is *spent* the moment you set the bounty, but if it triggers a wound that wouldn't have happened, then it paid off. Paying the bounty to flukes like battle wounds would be like giving the soldiers who got Ossama the bounty that was on his head: they were just doing their job, it makes no sense.

This is the reason that if people really want infiltrator hits they call for them privately and pay the infiltrator separately upon success.
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Penchant

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I don't understand why the source of the wound matters. When you place a bounty, the intent is to get the character wounded. (And, yes, perhaps have it be bad enough that he loses his office.) Sure, you may feel like you wasted your gold, but one way or another you lost the gold the instant you set the bounty. If you're lucky, maybe some lucky warrior in your own realm got it. :)
Think of when you are haggling with someone. If they need to get their money out of it, you are more willing to pay that higher price, but if they got it for free you aren't going to want to pay top dollar for it. Its not exactly the same but you get the general idea of it, I hope.
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