Author Topic: I Hate Food  (Read 62517 times)

vonGenf

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Re: I Hate Food
« Reply #225: March 05, 2013, 05:32:03 PM »
I'd like to know if anyone knows a good way to share an .xls file.

Can't you zip it and post it on the forum?
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Chenier

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Re: I Hate Food
« Reply #226: March 05, 2013, 05:46:52 PM »
Can't you zip it and post it on the forum?

How does one post things on the forums? I see "attachments and other options" below my post, but no option to actually add one. I suspect one needs special privileges to do so.
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Solari

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Re: I Hate Food
« Reply #227: March 05, 2013, 05:51:16 PM »
Dropbox or Google Drive.

vonGenf

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Re: I Hate Food
« Reply #228: March 05, 2013, 05:52:00 PM »
How does one post things on the forums? I see "attachments and other options" below my post, but no option to actually add one. I suspect one needs special privileges to do so.

Click on "attachments and other options", additional options will unfold. Click the "Choose file" button to, well, choose your file. You don't need any special privileges to do so.
After all it's a roleplaying game.

Anaris

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Re: I Hate Food
« Reply #229: March 05, 2013, 05:57:20 PM »
Oh gosh...

I'd like to know if anyone knows a good way to share an .xls file.

Upload it to Google Docs/Google Drive.

Click on "attachments and other options", additional options will unfold. Click the "Choose file" button to, well, choose your file. You don't need any special privileges to do so.

Well, I don't know what I'm doing wrong, then, because I never get that option. Under "Attachments and other options" for me is only "notify me of replies," "don't use smileys," and "return to this topic."

This is the case on Firefox, Chrome, and Safari on the Mac.
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vonGenf

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Re: I Hate Food
« Reply #230: March 05, 2013, 06:03:57 PM »
Well, I don't know what I'm doing wrong, then, because I never get that option. Under "Attachments and other options" for me is only "notify me of replies," "don't use smileys," and "return to this topic."

This is the case on Firefox, Chrome, and Safari on the Mac.

It works for me on Chromium on Mint.
After all it's a roleplaying game.

Chenier

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Re: I Hate Food
« Reply #231: March 05, 2013, 06:15:08 PM »
If food production doesn't rise, it'd take 200 days for Dwilight to completely run out of food, under perfect conditions.

Google Drive Share Link for Dwilight Food Predictions

If you see any errors, or have questions about any of the equations or numbers, feel free to speak up.

My goal, by doing this, was not to manipulate. It was to provide the best tool I could possibly build to help get a better estimate of Dwilight's food situation, as the numbers that are always given always seem exaggerated and do not consider fundamentally significant data like rot.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2013, 06:39:50 PM by Chénier »
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Dante Silverfire

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Re: I Hate Food
« Reply #232: March 05, 2013, 07:59:37 PM »
Here's a question: Why does Dwilight NEED to produce an overall surplus? Why do all regions have to be fully fed in order for the island to be successful?

A key idea from Tom's Might and Fealty game is that if you want some places to grow, that means other places won't grow as much. Thus, production truly does become an exchange in resources.

Why not implement part of this idea in Battlemaster, or perhaps just Dwilight/testing?

To do this though, you'd need to make an important change to make it viable and not just anti-fun. Namely: Allow region lords the ability to choose an artificial cap on population for their region. This will be the maximum population which the lord chooses to feed at any one time. (This cap would have to be lower than or equal to the actual population cap of the region.)

What this would do is prevent the growth/starvation cycles which have been seen many times on Dwilight. Instead of growing to 20k pop in your city, then starving back to 12k pop, you can simply set a cap at 15k population. When this cap is hit, extra population that is born is forced to either emigrate away from the city, or population growth simply stops. In this way you get to grow your population to a certain point, and then not have to worry about feeding an increasingly larger population that you don't have the production to support. This cuts out all the negative effects of starvation caused by this cycle. Now, if you can't feed whatever population you have, you'll still have them starve, but now you'd have much more control.

There is no need for rationing under this plan, and this sort of implementation has far less opportunities for abuse than a rationing plan.
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Re: I Hate Food
« Reply #233: March 05, 2013, 08:04:34 PM »
An island must have an overall surplus or it is impossible to feed the island. It would require the complete abandonment of perhaps a dozen regions, which defeats the purpose of creating those regions in the first place.

Food in BattleMaster is, frankly, not designed to be a zero-sum game, and I think trying to make it one is the worst suggestion I've seen for the system.
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Chenier

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Re: I Hate Food
« Reply #234: March 05, 2013, 08:05:14 PM »
The thing that makes me uncomfortable with being able to modify population growth (despite hating growth/massive starvation cycles) is the fact that there's an optimal pop count for each region, because 100% production does not require 100% population, and as such all of the pop above that threshold just eat food and produce nothing. It'd just feel like we'd be gaming this, because, except for maybe religious purposes (and even then), I don't see people wanting max pop, but rather just max production.
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Indirik

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Re: I Hate Food
« Reply #235: March 05, 2013, 08:06:39 PM »
Artificially setting a population cap for a region is way too gamey. Tom has rejected such suggestions in the past.
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Buffalkill

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Re: I Hate Food
« Reply #236: May 27, 2013, 05:16:44 PM »
Quote
An island must have an overall surplus or it is impossible to feed the island. It would require the complete abandonment of perhaps a dozen regions, which defeats the purpose of creating those regions in the first place.

Food in BattleMaster is, frankly, not designed to be a zero-sum game, and I think trying to make it one is the worst suggestion I've seen for the system.

I'm fairly new to the game, but it would seem to me that it makes the game more interesting (and realistic) if food is a "zero sum game". The scarcity of resources means that no realm can afford to be complacent, it gives them a motivation to go to war and engage in diplomacy. It's the same in real life. Scarce natural resources, e.g. oil, water, diamonds, etc. are among the root causes of many conflicts. If the developers' intent is for every realm to be fed, then why have it as a variable?

Indirik

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Re: I Hate Food
« Reply #237: May 27, 2013, 07:03:59 PM »
That would make the game suck for everyone on the minus side of the equation. Realms are completely unsupportable with less than the required amount of food. They will death-spiral into revolt and anarchy. If it was possible to run a realm with less than 100% supply, then it would be a different story.
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Anaris

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Re: I Hate Food
« Reply #238: May 27, 2013, 08:03:30 PM »
I'm fairly new to the game, but it would seem to me that it makes the game more interesting (and realistic) if food is a "zero sum game". The scarcity of resources means that no realm can afford to be complacent, it gives them a motivation to go to war and engage in diplomacy. It's the same in real life. Scarce natural resources, e.g. oil, water, diamonds, etc. are among the root causes of many conflicts. If the developers' intent is for every realm to be fed, then why have it as a variable?

We've been studying the way food works in the game for some time now, and we can say with confidence that this simply does not work.

Because of how quickly regions deteriorate without food, there is really no way for a realm that lacks food to go out and get it.
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Kai

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Re: I Hate Food
« Reply #239: May 29, 2013, 07:28:00 AM »
If food were actually scarce, why would you do anything but horde whatever thin margin you get? Trade it for gold so you can go out and kill whoever you sold food to?