Author Topic: Player targetted abuse for in-game actions  (Read 25405 times)

BattleMaster Server

  • Guest
Player targetted abuse for in-game actions
« Topic Start: February 27, 2013, 05:29:22 AM »
Summary:Player targetted abuse for in-game actions
Violation:Social Contract: Fair Play/Harassment and Abuse
World:Atamara
Complainer:TH
About:Jason

Full Complaint Text:
Fixing so that quote boxes work right:

From the Social Contract page:

Quote
"We expect you to play the game as you would play a board game with good friends"
"No verbal attacks, insults or harrassment of other players. Err on the side of caution, especially if you don't know the other player well."
"characters can be played as aggressive, as long as it is clear and obvious that the opposite character is the target, not the player behind him."

Over the past two weeks my character took actions concerning which Elegant had his character "Jason" the Ruler of CE on Atamara, take aggressive opposition against. This was all well in good, but over time his in-game letters grew more and more hateful and insulting. Repeated copied message spamming, and no effort made to even address in-game discussions but instead constant spam of 'betrayal' and similar terms were used in messages sent to large channels.

There are literally dozens of letters sent by Elegant insulting, berating, copying quotes from, and repeating over and over again the same thing until I simply gave up trying to respond because I don't have the time in-game to refute 50 letters that all have the same single line in them and I started to feel really upset with this behavior, I couldn't even read my in-game letters anymore because it made me so upset. For reference, each ellipses is from a different letter:

Quote
"You have told several times that you are our ally, whereas you such things behind our back. Shame on you.We can no longer trust someone who is plotting to take away our Duchies and plans to take our enemies in their plan...King Merlin, That was not a forgery. You cannot hide behind your lies. We have a whole set of your letters. Your true face is revealed...Your intent to take away regions from CE and Tara are now known...this king of yours wants to take our Duchies and does sweet talk in front of us...You still claim that the letter was a forgery? I liked you and admired you when I thought that you are a friend. How wrong I was...region-hungry-empire-which-needed-our-duchies....Plotting to break away our duchies?...you were making plans to damage us...The more lies you invent, the more effort I will put in exposing truth."

I could go on, but I am afraid I'll run out of space in the report.

Then, using the forum, Elegant's player accused me of being a liar, and took very personal attacks against myself as a player for my character's actions. He wouldn't even let me state my OOC intentions without acting as if on an OOC level I was targeting him and his realm. He proceeded to state that he didn't see a difference between the dispute in game and out-of-game.

I felt very hurt from this entire experience to even consider this game not being worth playing under such treatment and with apparent support by others in-game in similar fashion, but not to the same extreme.

Forum evidence:
Quote
Oh no...another bundle of lies from Merlin? Poor Jason is really pissed off.

Making me synonymous with my character?

Quote
Don't make me do it again. This is not the League channel, so I am not going to give more details. These sentences scream betrayal...Someday someone will do the same to you, then maybe you could understand the pain of being back-stabbed and being lied to in face. At least do yourself a favor and retain your honor as a player by not lying on forums...We knew what you were up to. We don't have to sit inside your brain to know your intentions...I never felt so betrayed in my life."

Quote
Quote
By another player:  "You are taking this *way* too personally."
His response: "I play like this. It's all personal."

Forum topic link for full reference: http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,3873.30.html

Non-quoted forum topic with more evidence pg.17+ http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,3740.240.html


Mod Note: Edited for formatting
« Last Edit: February 27, 2013, 05:33:49 AM by ^ban^ »

Dante Silverfire

  • Mighty Duke
  • ****
  • Posts: 1786
  • Merlin (AT), Brom(DWI), Proslyn(DWI)
    • View Profile
Re: Player targetted abuse for in-game actions
« Reply #1: February 27, 2013, 05:32:03 AM »
Fixing so that quote boxes work right:

Mod Note: ---snip---
« Last Edit: February 27, 2013, 05:34:17 AM by ^ban^ »
"This is the face of the man who has worked long and hard for the good of the people without caring much for any of them."

Vellos

  • Honourable King
  • *****
  • Posts: 3736
  • Stodgy Old Man in Training
    • View Profile
Re: Player targetted abuse for in-game actions
« Reply #2: February 27, 2013, 06:09:37 AM »
Have any comments you deem as harassing been made on an OOC basis within the game?
"A neutral humanism is either a pedantic artifice or a prologue to the inhuman." - George Steiner

Dante Silverfire

  • Mighty Duke
  • ****
  • Posts: 1786
  • Merlin (AT), Brom(DWI), Proslyn(DWI)
    • View Profile
Re: Player targetted abuse for in-game actions
« Reply #3: February 27, 2013, 06:26:17 AM »
Have any comments you deem as harassing been made on an OOC basis within the game?

Written with an "OOC" letterhead? No.

Clearly tinted against me as a player? Yes.

When my character tried to suggest that a portion of a letter sent to Elegant's character in game was a forgery, he claimed in multiple IC responses that he had "proof" that such letters were real and genuine and that any attempt by me to claim otherwise was just another lie and shambles. All of this was through "IC" responses.

In addition he sent an "IC? letter" which follows with regards to an RP sent to all nobles of Coria and all rulers of Atamara:
Quote
Letter from Jason Elegant   (2 days, 17 hours ago)
Message sent to all elder members of "League of the Eagle" (14 recipients)
Elders,

I have received confirmation from three honorable people of Coria that Coria is interested in helping us against Darka (and BoM I presume). I express my gratitude to such allies. Your help is much appreciated.

On an unrelated matter, today, one of my scribes informed me that a very honorable man, whose word is his life, wanted to end his life and was looking for methods to kill himself. If you come across any such person trying to do so, please help him find the correct method. And don't forget to show sympathies towards him, because that's the real purpose of this whole suicide drama.

Jason Elegant
Prime Minister of Cagilan Empire

Note: The underlining and bold was made by him not me. I am just reproducing the letter here as received. His claim to "show sympathies towards him" is also similar to a forum post claiming much the same thing about my reasons for doing RP's in-game. In addition, the RP reproduced below had no clear indication to be full IC character knowledge, but I'm not going to really go into the separation of IC/OOC anymore than that. The RP was meant to be the start of an RP chain for others to join in on, but was taken and made into an additional accusation against me as a player through an IC msg in game.

Quote
Roleplay from Merlin Silverfire   (3 days, 2 hours ago)
Message sent to everyone in your realm (34 recipients)
Merlin sat in the bedroom of the Royal Palace in Barad Gardor trying to figure out how all of this had gotten so far out of hand. Everything had been going well, and now he was having to make the worst of possible decisions.

The short-reigned King of Coria turned back to the table that had been placed in front of him. Many various items had been placed upon the table and a somewhat small man was pointing to and describing each one. Their various properties, and pros and cons. Yet, the King wasn't paying much attention. King Silverfire glanced again at those he had to choose from. There was the strong, sturdy, coil of rope. Two finely carved daggers with rubies in each hilt. A locket of heartsbane. An enclosed bucket through which one could see the moving patterns of a viper. A locket of nightblossom, which the small man was now describing:

"...slow, yet painless. Reports say that its results are indiscernible from sleep for the first hours."

...A small clear vial, and a few vials with some greenish liquid. Merlin's own sword, that he had commissioned upon becoming Duke of Barad Falas, was laid out as the last item at the end of the table. Merlin's eyes rested for some time on this jewel of Coria, before finally closing slowly. Minutes passed...hours perhaps, yet no one dared leave the room who had been invited to this very private meeting. Only his closest and most loyal servants were here.

In the end, Merlin looked up once again, and spoke quietly but assertively to his oldest and most loyal servant:

"Bring me the Royal Assassin. I know you don't know his identity, but if you seek him out, he will find you. I will await him here."
"This is the face of the man who has worked long and hard for the good of the people without caring much for any of them."

Geronus

  • Honourable King
  • *****
  • Posts: 2332
  • Dum dee dum dee dum
    • View Profile
Re: Player targetted abuse for in-game actions
« Reply #4: February 27, 2013, 06:49:55 AM »
Things can get heated in Battlemaster, especially when it comes to intrigue. This is expected, up to a point. Characters can and should develop complex relationships with each other that lead to friendships, betrayals and rivalries. However, it is important to note that there is and should always be a clear dividing line between players and their characters. When friends play a board game they compete, and there are winners and losers. What happens in the game though should not affect their real-life friendship. After all, it's only a game.

OOC communications in particular should be polite and civil at a bare minimum, regardless of how intensely the characters of the players involved are competing. In our last case, we saw a situation where OOC and IC rivalries became tangled up and led to bad blood between several players, leading to a highly toxic atmosphere in the realm they share. This isn't good for the game or the players, and it is in part the kind of situation that the Social Contract exists to prevent. If, in the course of playing the game, you find yourself becoming stressed out, unhappy, hurt, or otherwise feeling negatively, then something is very wrong. In some cases, where you have taken on too many responsibilities or become too emotionally invested in something (be it a character, realm or something else) this means that you should consider stepping back a bit, whether it be cutting back on your play time, changing realms, pausing characters, stepping down from positions, or even taking a break from playing entirely, as I recently did. In others, there may be things going on that should be reported to the Magistrates or the Titans because someone else is violating the Social Contract or the IRs and taking away your fun in the process.

There, that was my general commentary on this subject. In this case I'm inclined to see elements of both scenarios at play, but I'll be curious to see what the other party has to say.

^ban^

  • BM Dev Team
  • Mighty Duke
  • *
  • Posts: 1056
  • Le Genie
    • View Profile
Re: Player targetted abuse for in-game actions
« Reply #5: February 27, 2013, 07:05:59 AM »
I will be removing all posts that do not contribute to this discussion.

This is not the place for your "+1"'s, Vellos.
Born in Day they knew the Light; Rulers, prophets, servants, and warriors.
Life in Night that they walk; Gods, heretics, thieves, and murderers.
The Stefanovics live.

Perth

  • Honourable King
  • *****
  • Posts: 2037
  • Current Character: Kemen
    • View Profile
Re: Player targetted abuse for in-game actions
« Reply #6: February 27, 2013, 08:40:27 AM »
I will be removing all posts that do not contribute to this discussion.

This is not the place for your "+1"'s, Vellos.

Isn't Vellos a Magistrate? If he is agreeing with another of the Magistrates... isn't that pretty relevant?
"A tale is but half told when only one person tells it." - The Saga of Grettir the Strong
- Current: Kemen (D'hara) - Past: Kerwin (Eston), Kale (Phantaria, Terran, Melodia)

Gustav Kuriga

  • Guest
Re: Player targetted abuse for in-game actions
« Reply #7: February 27, 2013, 08:52:05 AM »
Isn't Vellos a Magistrate? If he is agreeing with another of the Magistrates... isn't that pretty relevant?

Let's not derail this into a discussion of that.

jaune

  • Mighty Duke
  • ****
  • Posts: 725
  • Suck my socks!
    • View Profile
Re: Player targetted abuse for in-game actions
« Reply #8: February 27, 2013, 12:16:00 PM »
I know much anything else but what readed from forums.

I understand "Jason" reaction at some extent... but ofcourse enough is enough. In game i have only heard some here and there, but it indeed started to sound more or less like bullying from rest of the "coalition"... but it still was inside game... i understand also Silverfires frustration over the issue, he made a lot efforts... Then again, it was bold stunt and i didnt expect jason to take it well... but this just boiled over and it didnt stop even after Merlin "gave up".

Personally i dont like the way "Jason" plays the game. He "Destroy" opposition with brute force... force them to leave island, force people to secede, give away regions etc. I guess all is within the rules... but still too brutal on my taste. I have not realized before this incident how damn serious those guys are when they play this game... scary.

-jaune
~Violence is always an option!~

Chenier

  • Exalted Emperor
  • ******
  • Posts: 8120
    • View Profile
Re: Player targetted abuse for in-game actions
« Reply #9: February 27, 2013, 01:04:16 PM »
The Magistrates don't police character actions, nor forum actions.

If you feel that the player is being too persistent (while keeping it in character) for your tastes, you always have the option to set him on "ignore". Letting it be known you did so will usually dissuade such a person from making much more behind your back (though not completely, but it's still fine as you don't have the time to respond to his accusations anyways).

Players must be nice to each other, to a certain minimum level at least, but characters are not bound by these rules.
Dit donc camarade soleil / Ne trouves-tu ça pas plutôt con / De donner une journée pareil / À un patron

Anaris

  • Administrator
  • Exalted Emperor
  • *
  • Posts: 8525
    • View Profile
Re: Player targetted abuse for in-game actions
« Reply #10: February 27, 2013, 01:52:23 PM »
Players must be nice to each other, to a certain minimum level at least, but characters are not bound by these rules.

But that doesn't mean, surely, that as long as I keep it to non-OOC-tagged messages, and never openly direct my abuse at the player, but rather always refer to the character, that I can just keep harassing someone as much as I like?

At some point, even if it remains purely IC, harassment like that does rise to a level that is appropriate for some sort of enforcement action. The player of the Elegant family is clearly not playing as he would with friends at this point. He has all but stated outright that he considers the player of the Silverfire family his personal enemy, and that he considers everything Merlin has done recently is a personal attack on him.

I do not believe that just because "you can ignore him" it is appropriate for the Magistrates to abrogate all responsibility to handle cases of in-game harassment.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

jaune

  • Mighty Duke
  • ****
  • Posts: 725
  • Suck my socks!
    • View Profile
Re: Player targetted abuse for in-game actions
« Reply #11: February 27, 2013, 02:04:48 PM »
I guess i should add, that towards me(as player of his "main enemy" atm.) he has always acted polite and nice.

This thing with Silverfire just exploded somethign nasty.
~Violence is always an option!~

Indirik

  • Exalted Emperor
  • ******
  • Posts: 10849
  • No pressure, no diamonds.
    • View Profile
Re: Player targetted abuse for in-game actions
« Reply #12: February 27, 2013, 02:08:55 PM »
It is very difficult, absent direct OOC attacks, to determine when IC harassment of a character (which is fine) turns into OOC harassment of a player (which is bad). Have other characters of the Silverfire family been harassed? Have other characters of the Elegant family taken part in the harassment?

BattleMaster is a PvP game. It is quite possible, even probable, that someone will have their feelings hurt, or piss off another player. That's in the nature of playing a PvP game. I'm not sure if the Magistrates can determine when things have gone too far without some kind of "smoking gun", when they can't have access to the entire message store to read the full scope of things and see what's been happening.
If at first you don't succeed, don't take up skydiving.

Geronus

  • Honourable King
  • *****
  • Posts: 2332
  • Dum dee dum dee dum
    • View Profile
Re: Player targetted abuse for in-game actions
« Reply #13: February 27, 2013, 02:22:14 PM »
If there was a smoking gun, I assume Silverfire would have produced it by now. It's not a cut and dry case. The IG messages, while vitriolic, are also messages between characters. Given the course of events, I can hardly say he's crossed any sort of line in the messages I've seen; in my time playing I've seen worse, albeit rarely. The only thing I've seen that really raises any questions are the forum posts where Elegant the player is accusing Silverfire the player of spreading lies, backstabbing, etc.

Chenier

  • Exalted Emperor
  • ******
  • Posts: 8120
    • View Profile
Re: Player targetted abuse for in-game actions
« Reply #14: February 27, 2013, 02:23:26 PM »
Given the changes that were tried to be imposed on the realm's government, honestly, it all seems rather mild.

Rebellions, secessions, and just overall transition of power from one faction to another often leads to things like these, if not even worse.

Spam is a different issue, though. But I've not seen evidence of spam, just allegations of it.

Quote
50 letters that all have the same single line in them

What does this mean? That he sent 50 times a one-line message, or that he repeated the same message in 50 different messages?

Quote
Repeated copied message spamming

What does this mean? He keeps sending the same message over and over? He keeps quoting himself? He keeps sending messages that say essentially the same thing? He sends the same letters multiple times in a row? How many times?

There could be bad behavior going on, but I cannot deduct as much with the limited information I have available.
Dit donc camarade soleil / Ne trouves-tu ça pas plutôt con / De donner une journée pareil / À un patron