Religious freedom?

[Gloria]

Was it common that nobles could choose their own religious belief?  How many different religions could co-exist in one same region? 

[songqu88@gmail.com]

For the first question, ask someone more involved in Medieval history. However, by the mere fact that there have been and always will be several extremely different religions on any given continent in BM, that already makes it diverge greatly from historical Medieval Europe.

For the second question: According to this page (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Records_of_BattleMaster#Guilds_and_Religions), several. It makes sense since game mechanics doesn't restrict temple building so long as the lord decides to build it and it has the treasury support to keep going. Having any majority faith is going to be tricky though.

Now in terms of realism, probably not. Does that detract from the way religions currently work, or would making it more realistic significantly improve on something sorely lacking in the current system? Probably not.

[egamma]

The larger the city, the more likely it is that there be a variety of religions--for example. Jewish ghetto neighborhoods are not something you'd find in a village of 20, but in a city of 500,000 you'd certainly find 10 Jewish males to form a minyan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minyan).

And trade cities will have a constant influx of foreign religions. Take a city like Athens. You'll have Christians, Jews, Muslims, perhaps some followers followers of the Roman and Greek gods, etc.

As for nobles being allowed to believe in something other than their liege? That's certainly something to put a strain on the relationship.

[De-Legro]

The larger the city, the more likely it is that there be a variety of religions--for example. Jewish ghetto neighborhoods are not something you'd find in a village of 20, but in a city of 500,000 you'd certainly find 10 Jewish males to form a minyan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minyan).

And trade cities will have a constant influx of foreign religions. Take a city like Athens. You'll have Christians, Jews, Muslims, perhaps some followers followers of the Roman and Greek gods, etc.

As for nobles being allowed to believe in something other than their liege? That's certainly something to put a strain on the relationship.

Would depend on what age of medieval life your realm tries to emulate. Early oaths were very loose, more about joint protection and military matters. It was much latter that we saw vassals tie their political careers etc to their lieges.

[Vellos]

Oaths rarely necessitated a theological belief, but rather were predicated on it.

That is, excommunication of a ruler exempted his vassals from a religious duty to fulfill their oaths.

Religious freedom existed in some limited fashion for urban minorities (like Jews), and existed in the short-run for many sects (like the Cathars), but, in the long run... not so much (see: Albigensian Crusade).

Notably, it is not until the reformation that much in the way of "formal" religious policy gets addressed in Western Europe. Byzantine states had some discussions, and the dispute over the conversion of Serbia and Bulgaria between the Roman and Greek churches might make a productive investigation.

However, it isn't until the Peace of Augsburg that the uppermost lords of the Holy Roman Empire were permitted to adhere to any faith other than Roman Catholicism. Then again, there weren't tons of options on the table at the time either.

[Gustav Kuriga]

Why do we have to focus on europe? The Arab world was quite tolerant of other religions for some time during this period. I wouldn't say this is the same as religious freedom in the modern sense that all religions should be equal, but that just because you are of a different religion does not make you the enemy.

[Vellos]

The game is based on Medieval Europe.

However, in the Arab world, non-Muslims paid a special (and relatively high) additional tax. Still not at all religious freedom.

[De-Legro]

Or risked being taken away from their parents and family and conscripted into the Janissary forces. Of course one could amass quite a lot of power within the Janissary but where also considered a special class of slaves.

[vonGenf]

Or risked being taken away from their parents and family and conscripted into the Janissary forces. Of course one could amass quite a lot of power within the Janissary but where also considered a special class of slaves.

That was the Ottoman Empire, with an organization quite different from the Arabic Caliphates.

But yes, your point stands, I just wanted to point that out.

[Gustav Kuriga]

I never said it was religious freedom, and even said "that doesn't mean that all religions would be equal. Thus, other religions were tolerated, if they payed their taxes. And the middle east had a huge influence on Medieval Europe besides! Hello, Crusades anyone?

[Vellos]

Yes, the middle east did have a big influence on Medieval Europe. So did migrant steppe tribes. Frankly, so did India; even China had periodic influences.

But the game is not about those places.

Moreover, even in places with "religious freedom," it would mostly be for commoners. You won't find tons of Christian knights running around holding lordships in Fatimid Egypt. A very few perhaps, but not many. The Byzantine Empire had a few high-ranking Muslims in its later days, if I remember correctly.

If a realm RPed itself as allowing religious freedom, but nobles of religion X received 1/2 has large of oaths, or perhaps paid 2x as high of duchy taxes, that might be realistic. But even that is a stretch, given that most Medieval powers, even the Arab ones, had state religions. Some limited exceptions do exist in China and India at times, and I'm unclear what the religious status of nobles in Moorish Spain might be. But, by and large, religious diversity among the nobility was tightly restricted, even more than among the commoners.

[Gustav Kuriga]

Why do we have to focus on Europe?

[Gloria]

Why do we have to focus on Europe?

We don't. 

Actually, the BM world is very unlike the real world.  However, Medieval Europe is the reference with which we are most familiar.

However, given that in game we ar  e not to found any religion that resembles one in real life, BM turned out to differ much from the Middle Ages as lived in this world.  And that's what's fun about this. 

[Indirik]

Because Tom has stated that the game is to be modeled on the medieval European style. On islands other than Dwilight, this is a bit relaxed. But on Dwilight, it should be followed very closely.

[Gustav Kuriga]

*mutters something about region names being references to Asia and a realm named Xinhai*