Averoth OOC conflicts with GM

[DoctorHarte]

Ok guys you have probably figured it out by now anyways... I'm Tom...

Cool story, bro. Tell it again

[Glaumring the Fox]

No, really... I'm Tom.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

As for the accusations, as an outside-group on this matter I believe that the GMs have no part in this, they are too much part of the game and represent the freedom of this game to try and manipulate it for themselves. The Titans are another matter, they may have something more to do for their characters versus the game. Then again I don't know who they are, but it's still a possibility that there's a rotten Titan in the mix.

http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Titans

If that is still valid, then that would refute the implication you brought up.

[Indirik]

That page is still correct. Titans work as a group, not as individuals. My understanding has been that no individual titan can take any action by themselves. It require multiple titans to agree on any action. Also, titans only have the ability to temporarily lock an account. I think three days is the max. Any more than that, including permanent locks and any lightning bolts, has to come from Tom himself.

[Maxim]

These players don't seem to be much active on this forum either.

Apparently not, but then neither am I, I just sit here incredulous at whats being said.

[Nosferatus]

Apparently not, but then neither am I, I just sit here incredulous at whats being said.

but you ARE willing to post a message stating that you are not willing to respond... that's rather interesting, how did you come up with that? almost sounds like a monthy python joke.
a big discusion will now emerge about if you really are or not willing to involve in the initial discussion.

I think this kind of explains what has been stated before about the attitude of most players in Averoth.

I am almost sure you just WANT the "gms' to be injust.

[Anaris]

I am almost sure you just WANT the "gms' to be injust.

Not so much that he wants them to be, but that he has decided that they (or, rather, we) are.  And naturally, such unjust and petty "GMs" would never admit to their injustice and pettiness, so everything we say that contradicts that must be a lie.  And everything bad that happens to them is a direct result of the bias against them from the "GMs".

When someone's decided that you're untrustworthy and out to get them, how are you supposed to prove that you're not?  Especially when they are also breaking the rules that it's your job to enforce? 

Just let them off, just to prove that you don't bear a grudge against them? I rather think not.

[Geronus]

In all fairness, I am virtually certain that there are players in Averoth who do not fit the caricature that's taken shape in this thread. However, there are so many aspects of what that realm has done that are downright suspicious that it's inevitable that something like this would occur. Averoth is not just an exception, it is a freak of nature. Realms consisting of three *dirt* poor regions should *not* be able to field armies on par with some of the most powerful realms in the game.

Beyond that, it's hard to imagine such a poor realm attracting 50 normal players. I don't mean to imply that there are multies in the realm, though it sounds like there may be grounds for suspicion, but that most players wouldn't want to join a realm that is incredibly overpopulated and can offer next to no income to a new noble. Averoth's success in recruiting nobles suggests to me that players with OOC connections to players in Averoth are making characters there for OOC reasons, to support their friends and contribute additional family wealth to the cause. I think playing with friends is fine, one of the joys of the game, but not when it takes the next step into using OOC connections and communication to control a realm and win a war. That's when friends become a clan, and I think those are incredibly detrimental to the game.

Basically, the fact that Averoth is so unusual was bound to draw attention, not to mention make the realm's enemies feel like victims of power gaming. You'll notice that no one is getting up in arms about Caerwyn, but that's because Caerwyn is so far like every other realm in this game. It meets expectations in terms of the capabilities it has demonstrated. Averoth on the other hand blows all expectations out of the water and virtually *demands* scrutiny because of how freakishly off the charts it is.

[Maxim]

Nosferatus, grow up. Monty Python? Please.

"but you ARE willing to post a message stating that you are not willing to respond... that's rather interesting, how did you come up with that? almost sounds like a monthy python joke."

Thats the level of Youtube tro'lol'ery at best. I won't dignify it with anything more than that as an answer. The same goes for these such examples -

All 51 of those nobles are probably the same person...

And that post about grumpy SA is priceless...

I think you are just bluffing bro. You wouldn't even get a warning. You will just lose your multies if you are actually cheating. And if it was a mistake he will give it back to you. Tom wouldn't threaten you because there is no reason to. He will just hammer you.

This implies that you personally never received any such message. Therefore, you are repeating an unsubstantiated rumor.

The OOC sniping on this Forum in general is sickening (See the Dwilight-SA-Crusade topic, the Atamara Norland Topic, etc.), which is precisely why I don't come on here much save for when I find OOC discussions (brought up by a new character in our realm, surprisingly ..) casting aspersions against players in my realm. Apparently if someone from Averoth does speak here it's as bad as if they don't. Make up your minds.


Nosferatus, do you know what I'd really like to know? I'd like to know how people know whats being said within Averoth. I'd like to know how you, specifically, as someone with a character in Madina and as the one who began this topic, know what is being said in Averoth.

I heard that players in averoth claim that the GM's are openly abusing there powers to win an in game war against there characters.
I also heard averoth uses family gold all the time to finance there armies and that the GM's now made it for averoth impossible to take out family gold.

What you are referring to is a single comment, from a single character in Averoth. From what I can see it has not been published anywhere, nor even greatly commented on in the realm itself.

So how do you know about it?

Also the remark you made about family gold is an odd one. Averoth has had a lot of gold stored for a long long time, I can assure you family gold has not been the main staple of our budget. However someone did remark they can't call on family gold now, despite having only ever done so once before some time ago.

But then again that begs the question, how do you know about it?

[Maxim]

Also Timothy -

Not so much that he wants them to be, but that he has decided that they (or, rather, we) are. 

Have I? Have I really decided that? You've divinely ascertained that I think that, through my total silence on the issue while I wait for Tom to do his thing?

[Nosferatus]

a friend of mine started playing there, i was rather shocked by various messages i read when helping him with the game.

I'd like to add that i really like to see averoth do what it does and especialy how it does it, i've always wanted to be part of a realm like that.
But it just doesn't really seem like this realm evolved from in game situations, it really looks like a ooc clique in many ways.
that plus the fact that people spread ridiculous rumours amongst players about the dev team which are very rude and stupid, has caused me to start this topic and discussion.
I hope to create awareness and seek out to make life a little easier for the volunteers that make this game possible.

Players in BM should never think the dev team is out to get them, that is just horrible.
I am trying to do what i can to prevent that.

OW and ps, my monthy python remark did make you involve more active in the topic did it not?
That was the exact reason why i did it if you care to know.
I'd like your opinion to be heard and discussed and hopefully make that involve more players playing in averoth to involve in this topic.

[Indirik]

osferatus, do you know what I'd really like to know? I'd like to know how people know whats being said within Averoth. I'd like to know how you, specifically, as someone with a character in Madina and as the one who began this topic, know what is being said in Averoth.

So how do you know about it?

But then again that begs the question, how do you know about it?

You sound pretty shocked and outraged to hear that someone outside Averoth knows what's being said inside Averoth. Is it so surprising that people that play in Averoth talk to people that are not in Averoth?

I didn't see you getting so upset about the fact that people in Avereoth know what's being said in Astrum. Or in Sanguis Astroism. Or even in Morek, or the Libero Empire.

I don't see how you can reconcile those two attitudes: that it's perfectly reasonable for Averoth to know what every other realm is saying, but shocking and outrageous that people outside Averoth would know what's being said there.

[Anaris]

Have I? Have I really decided that? You've divinely ascertained that I think that, through my total silence on the issue while I wait for Tom to do his thing?

I apologize; you're correct. I have no direct evidence of you, in particular, showing such beliefs.  In fact, from most of what I've seen so far, you're probably one of the best players in Averoth, and one of those that I do not in the least suspect of multicheating.

I have, however, seen many messages from many players in Averoth and (while it still existed) Thulsoma claiming that various things "prove" their already strongly held belief that the "GMs" are biased against them, due to their alleged love for Sanguis Astroism. 

Not, as you claim, one, one time, but a great many, from different characters.

[Naidraug]

When someone's decided that you're untrustworthy and out to get them, how are you supposed to prove that you're not?  Especially when they are also breaking the rules that it's your job to enforce? 

Just let them off, just to prove that you don't bear a grudge against them? I rather think not.

This things normally happens when you have the game "staff" playing the game they make. There is always going to be someone who will claim the staff is cheating and using their powers to 'win' the game.

Another game I played had the same problem, and it ended up with the 'staff' playing together alone in a staff only galaxy(it was a space oriented game, much like planetarion).

When someone who has knowledge that is 'hidden' and play the game, there will always be at least one 'regular' player that will acuse them of cheating.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

I'd imagine that's why those GM accounts are anonymous to normal accounts. But that doesn't help when the rest of the Dev team is more or less public and have public profiles on their normal accounts.

You know, if their accounts are of the normal kind, as in, they created them using the same "Join" link and "Create Character" that everyone else uses, they don't have any special powers on those accounts. They also don't have full admin privileges, so I've heard, meaning only Tom gets to directly alter the actual game, if it ever is necessary. Otherwise, at most their only advantage would be knowledge of the game code, for which they could potentially exploit, though I'm pretty sure they would be punished severely for any such attempts.

However, that might not really matter. Some normal player who is savvy and observant could potentially figure out quite a few exploits, and for those more immoral players, capitalize on them. But that's an entirely different discussion so my point for that is: Don't exploit those bugs, it's not cool.

Anyway, the point is, I am about 99.9% certain that dev team members don't get any special effects on their *normal* accounts, which would be exactly limited to the same stuff any other normal member is limited to. This would obviously also extend to their characters, as I am pretty sure none of us has ever seen a non-GM account with any characters as NPCs. Those are, to my knowledge, the only character types to have any code different from what is available to all human characters.

So the extent of the dev team's advantages only comes down to knowledge of mechanics, which if one thinks about it, doesn't actually make that much of a difference, even if those get exploited. Battles would still have enough randomness that even flawless initial setups can't account for final outcomes with 100% accuracy. Furthermore, politics has nothing to do with mechanics (except for the formalities of war and peace) and everything to do with your brain and words. Knowledge of the entirety of BM's code will not help one bit in achieving political dominance, which is one of the most, if not the most, important aspects to achieve success in BM.