Author Topic: Allow banker to view actual region stat values  (Read 10034 times)

Chenier

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Allow banker to view actual region stat values
« Topic Start: March 06, 2013, 04:18:09 AM »
    Title: Allow banker to view actual region stat values instead of descriptors
    Summary: Instead of viewing stuff like "plodding" and "bleak", allow the banker to see all of the actual numerical values.
    Details: No further explanation required.
    Benefits: Bankers don't have much to do, and are somehow expected to help organize realm management with neither authority nor numbers. Having access to actual numbers would help them guide their realm-mates in order to improve realm efficiency.
    Possible Exploits: None. Knights and lords have access to the stats, and that doesn't break anything. Everyone used to have access to the stats, and that didn't break anything either. This obfuscation was brought in to remove the obsession for 100%, but there's already plenty of people who see these numbers so it shouldn't be a problem for this either. After all, it's not game-breaking data, it'd just help remove a lot of frustration from the banker.
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Anaris

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The obfuscation was brought in to remove the obsession for 100%, yes.

And who, exactly, do you think it was specifically intended to obfuscate it from? Could it maybe be the person most likely to be checking over the entire realm's production values and yelling at Lords whose regions are below 100%?

You don't seem to have grasped the purpose of anti-micromanagement changes, Chénier.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Tom

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Flat-out rejected. We added this in specifically to REMOVE the obsession with micro-management from the higher-ups.

Chenier

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The obfuscation was brought in to remove the obsession for 100%, yes.

And who, exactly, do you think it was specifically intended to obfuscate it from? Could it maybe be the person most likely to be checking over the entire realm's production values and yelling at Lords whose regions are below 100%?

You don't seem to have grasped the purpose of anti-micromanagement changes, Chénier.

Bankers have nothing else to do.

Also, you are correct, I do not grasp the purpose of it. I do not see what it has brought to the game, or in any way made it any better. After all, lords can still obsess with 100% in their regions, because they see it.

It has just made it frustrating for those wishing to help out the people who play lords and who are either clueless or cannot be bothered. And it makes understanding food production impossible, putting the entire realm at risk of collapse.
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Anaris

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Bankers have nothing else to do.

Also, you are correct, I do not grasp the purpose of it. I do not see what it has brought to the game, or in any way made it any better. After all, lords can still obsess with 100% in their regions, because they see it.

It has just made it frustrating for those wishing to help out the people who play lords and who are either clueless or cannot be bothered. And it makes understanding food production impossible, putting the entire realm at risk of collapse.

It makes it so that Lords who are happy with 90% can let it be 90% without Bankers who want everything to be 100% constantly hounding them when it slips a percent or two.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Chenier

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It makes it so that Lords who are happy with 90% can let it be 90% without Bankers who want everything to be 100% constantly hounding them when it slips a percent or two.

I've seen bankers direct courtiers (bureaus) to do such things, but not the actual lords themselves.  'cause, hell, what else are courtiers to do? Waste their time working on a region that's already at 100%, when they could go to one that could be improved by 10%? Having every lord babysit his region is not efficient.
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Anaris

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I've seen bankers direct courtiers (bureaus) to do such things, but not the actual lords themselves.  'cause, hell, what else are courtiers to do? Waste their time working on a region that's already at 100%, when they could go to one that could be improved by 10%? Having every lord babysit his region is not efficient.

And if a Lord is happy with his region being at 90%, why should the Banker care?

And if a Lord wants his region at 100%, then it's his job to ask for help—whether he asks a courtier directly, asks a region maintenance message group, or asks the Banker (or other government member).
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Charles

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Is there any other way of letting the banker see the full 100% accurate details on food production?  Or do they already?  If that is what Chenier wants and you do not like his suggestion, perhaps another method could be found?

Chenier

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And if a Lord is happy with his region being at 90%, why should the Banker care?

And if a Lord wants his region at 100%, then it's his job to ask for help—whether he asks a courtier directly, asks a region maintenance message group, or asks the Banker (or other government member).

How is the lord in any way penalized if a courtier is pointed in his direction to help bring it up another 10%?

And what else does a banker have to do? It's the most worthless title the game has.
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Anaris

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How is the lord in any way penalized if a courtier is pointed in his direction to help bring it up another 10%?

In that case, it's not about the Lord but about the courtier.

Quote
And what else does a banker have to do? It's the most worthless title the game has.

This will be changing shortly, as you should already know if you'd been paying any attention.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Chenier

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In that case, it's not about the Lord but about the courtier.

This will be changing shortly, as you should already know if you'd been paying any attention.

What else does a courtier have to do, other than surveying administration in regions with sub-optimal stats? If he doesn't want to do that, then why bother with the class?

Also, a lot of things are meant to be changing "shortly", so no, I don't remember anymore what's supposed to come with bankers. And a quick search on the forums doesn't tell me anything either.

And if you are referencing to what's on the march 2013 roadmap, while all of these are good, they still will lead to the banker operating blind and completely unable to predict the food requirements to survive until the next summer.
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Anaris

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What else does a courtier have to do, other than surveying administration in regions with sub-optimal stats? If he doesn't want to do that, then why bother with the class?

Maybe he would rather not be a courtier, but has become one because the realm needs them.

This is, I believe, less of a problem now than it has been in the past; however, I don't believe it's wise to simply forget about the times when it was a big problem, and give the leaders of realms the tools to hyper-micromanage again.

Quote
Also, a lot of things are meant to be changing "shortly", so no, I don't remember anymore what's supposed to come with bankers. And a quick search on the forums doesn't tell me anything either.

And if you are referencing to what's on the march 2013 roadmap, while all of these are good, they still will lead to the banker operating blind and completely unable to predict the food requirements to survive until the next summer.

I am, and how the hell do you know that? Are you assuming that I would implement a system that simply lets the Banker throw food around without even being able to see where it's going and how much the region it's going from needs to survive? Because if so, thanks for assuming my total incompetence.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Chenier

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Maybe he would rather not be a courtier, but has become one because the realm needs them.

This is, I believe, less of a problem now than it has been in the past; however, I don't believe it's wise to simply forget about the times when it was a big problem, and give the leaders of realms the tools to hyper-micromanage again.

I am, and how the hell do you know that? Are you assuming that I would implement a system that simply lets the Banker throw food around without even being able to see where it's going and how much the region it's going from needs to survive? Because if so, thanks for assuming my total incompetence.

Not even lords and dukes have that data, why would I assume the bankers will?

Because the current data available to lords and dukes doesn't consider seasons... among a number of other things.
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Anaris

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Not even lords and dukes have that data, why would I assume the bankers will?

Because the current data available to lords and dukes doesn't consider seasons... among a number of other things.

At one point, I did write a page that included food data that attempted to take seasons into account. It kept having all kinds of problems. However, this was back when there were variable harvests, which confused the calculations significantly.

I could probably write one now that would properly take seasons into account, with daily harvests.

There's never been a conscious effort to keep accurate medium-to-long-term food production data (ignoring weather, which is unpredictable) out of Lords' hands; it's just not been a trivial proposition.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Chenier

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At one point, I did write a page that included food data that attempted to take seasons into account. It kept having all kinds of problems. However, this was back when there were variable harvests, which confused the calculations significantly.

I could probably write one now that would properly take seasons into account, with daily harvests.

There's never been a conscious effort to keep accurate medium-to-long-term food production data (ignoring weather, which is unpredictable) out of Lords' hands; it's just not been a trivial proposition.

If I'm given enough raw data to work with, I could make a prediction model, which I could then share publicly, along with the formulas to make it work.

Weather is unpredictable... and yet not. They have a set % chance of happening, and have defined values for their impact. On a small scale, it's best not to include it. But continent-wide and over many years, it could be factored in as an average.

I suspect, though, that it's info that most players don't care about. Seasons only affect two continents, and on these two continents, very few realms (especially if you exclude ones being conquered) have a meaningful food deficit. Most realms know they'll make it through winter, so what do they care for knowing by exactly how much? At most, they can note how much food they have in the warehouses at the start of a year, and a year later, as most of them probably don't trade much with other years. Because the food deficit isn't equally spread out.

All I want, really, is the means to predict how much food will be required to make it through to summer. Because that's how much food we need to try to plunder or buy. (mostly the latter, obviously, Falkirk won't be around for much longer)

That, and that the continent actually produce a surplus of food that is maintainable on the long term...
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