Set Battle-Width by Region Type

[Bedwyr]

    Title: Set Battle-Width by Region Type

    Summary: Limit number of soldiers per side in the front line (by region type)

    Details: Code would need to be added to prevent more troops from entering a line once it was occupied by X-(number of men in your unit).  Rules for who got to enter in cramped situations might need to be developed, but could presumably work the same way assaulting fortifications does when determining who enters the siege engines in what order.

    Benefits: Create greater tactical and strategic complexity in the game by providing real and significant differences to how battles have to be fought in different region types.

    Possible Exploits: The same exploits that come with any additional complexity.  I imagine there are going to be any number of ways for clever saboteurs to spike battles with inappropriate troop mixes, for instance, but I think they will be self-limiting, as their troops will get quickly slaughtered and the battlefield would have the same width the whole way.  This will also increase the importance of niche recruitment centers, and thus increase the effectiveness of that kind of sabotage.

Exploits of the new battle code will be harder, as drawing a line between innovative tactics and gaming the system may prove difficult, but I think a suitable period of tweaking will mostly ameliorate this.

[Tom]

Have you considered what this could do to initial troop deployments?

[vonGenf]

Have you considered what this could do to initial troop deployments?

Units that can't find room would need to be pushed back a row I imagine?

The first line would need to be resolved first. You start with all units with the front settings and assigne them randomly to the first line until it's  full, then the 2nd line, etc. until you've deployed all the units. Then the do the same with the units with middle setting starting with the 2nd line, etc.

Marshals would need to be careful. Have too much infantry in front in a narrow pass and your archers will end up so far behind that they won't even be able to shoot past the frontline.

[Penchant]

Units that can't find room would need to be pushed back a row I imagine?

The first line would need to be resolved first. You start with all units with the front settings and assigne them randomly to the first line until it's  full, then the 2nd line, etc. until you've deployed all the units. Then the do the same with the units with middle setting starting with the 2nd line, etc.

Marshals would need to be careful. Have too much infantry in front in a narrow pass and your archers will end up so far behind that they won't even be able to shoot past the frontline.

What happens when the troops don't fit anywhere?  The recent battles on At have sides with 3k troops each, so what would happen if that battle took place in a mountain with this applied?

[Indirik]

The extras would fall off the edge of the world, into oblivion?

[vonGenf]

What happens when the troops don't fit anywhere?  The recent battles on At have sides with 3k troops each, so what would happen if that battle took place in a mountain with this applied?

How many lines deep is a battle-field? Is there any reason not to make it 65536 lines deep and avoid the problem?

[Anaris]

How many lines deep is a battle-field? Is there any reason not to make it 65536 lines deep and avoid the problem?

I believe it's 11 lines deep (5 on each side with a single center line).

And yes, widening it arbitrarily would require some significant changing of the combat code, I believe.

However, in this case, the answer is pretty simple: You just stick all the leftover units into the farthest back row of their side (1 row behind Rearguard), and they can only advance into the next row as space becomes free. Not even the best SF or Daimons can shoot more than 5 rows, so unless the opponents are pushing into your lines, none of the units in that line will be able to engage in any way.

[vonGenf]

However, in this case, the answer is pretty simple: You just stick all the leftover units into the farthest back row of their side (1 row behind Rearguard), and they can only advance into the next row as space becomes free. Not even the best SF or Daimons can shoot more than 5 rows, so unless the opponents are pushing into your lines, none of the units in that line will be able to engage in any way.

Oh yeah, that works too!

[egamma]

Units that can't find room would need to be pushed back a row I imagine?

The first line would need to be resolved first. You start with all units with the front settings and assign them randomly to the first line until it's  full,

Instead of randomly, I would assign the largest unit, then the next, until it's almost full--and when the next group won't fit, keep trying until you find a group that fits. That way you fill the line as full as you can, the way you would if you were really trying to stop the enemy from entering the pass. Reinforcements would probably consist of one or two units at a time, again trying to optimize the space.

The attacking enemy would do the same thing--as many men as possible would move forward each time.


Example (defender only), with line width of 100:
L1: 45, 35, 15 (total of 95)
L2: 30, 25, 21 (total of 76)

If the first line took >24 casualties, then the 30 man unit moves up. If <16 casualties, then nobody moves up. You can figure out the values for the other two units, it'll be between 24 and 16.

[Stabbity]

I LOVE this idea.

[Tom]

Now you are starting to see where the trouble and complexity of the battle system are...

Now what about a 100-max-width battle where one 90 infantry and one 50 cavalry unit are set to deploy in row 1, and one 20 archers and one 60 infantry unit are deployed in row 2? How do you set this up AND WHY?

[vonGenf]

Now what about a 100-max-width battle where one 90 infantry and one 50 cavalry unit are set to deploy in row 1, and one 20 archers and one 60 infantry unit are deployed in row 2? How do you set this up?

From egamma's idea:

Step 1: You can't put both front-row units on the first row. You pick the biggest: the 90-men infantry. The cavalry is pushed back.

Step 2: The cavalry has priority as it was to front. There's no room left for the 60-men infantry, it gets pushed back. The archers sit on the second line.

The line of battle is:

1: 90-I
2: 50-C 20-A
3: 60-I

AND WHY?

Because no matter how much you want to tell your units to get in front, the front is not wide enough, so all they can do is make sure that they are in front of the people who got told to be in the middle.

[Tom]

The player of the cavalry will complain that his unit had more CS and wanted to charge and should've been in front, not the stupid peasants.

One hour later, there will be a feature request to make deploy order a configurable feature, or let the marshal decide, or whatever.

Wanna bet? :-)

[Anaris]

The player of the cavalry will complain that his unit had more CS and wanted to charge and should've been in front, not the stupid peasants.

One hour later, there will be a feature request to make deploy order a configurable feature, or let the marshal decide, or whatever.

Wanna bet? :-)

And if we refused to make any changes that were likely to cause some minority of the playerbase to whine, we'd never get anything done.

I really don't think that's reason enough to spike this, Tom.

[vonGenf]

The player of the cavalry will complain that his unit had more CS and wanted to charge and should've been in front, not the stupid peasants.

One hour later, there will be a feature request to make deploy order a configurable feature, or let the marshal decide, or whatever.

Wanna bet? :-)

Oh, no, you'd win! I already have a canned response for you:

Rejected. The infantry should have been set to the middle line.