Rules/policies question

[Velax]

The difference here, though, is that the temporary stepping down is part of a punishment (for religious intolerance). I would think a lord would prefer, "Step down for two weeks while temples are built in your region to help teach you the value of religious tolerance" rather than, "Your lordship is hereby revoked permanently".

[Tom]

SMA operates on Tom's assumption of what is considered medieval atmosphere. Whether or not that has complete basis in reality tends to depend on the person you ask.

You talk as if I would judge every single interaction, which is very far from the truth. SMA is more of a community thing, but since there needs to be someone who can make a final decision if there are different opinions, that happens to be me.

It is very rarely needed.

[Tom]

religious tolerance

re-what?

There was very little of that in medieval europe, including the times before christianity held sway. People were killed for having a different religion. Some like the jews were tolerated, mostly because they could conveniently be persecuted whenever you needed a scapegoat and partially because their religion was at least a variant (in BM terms).

I can not imagine the christian baron of an european barony to order the construction of, say, a temple to Wotan/Odin.

[vonGenf]

I can not imagine the christian baron of an european barony to order the construction of, say, a temple to Wotan/Odin.

Here it's more a case of a pagan ruler ordering a christian lord to "tolerate" a temple to Odin. The christian lord would never do it by himself, of course, but it makes sense for the pagan ruler to require that.

In the other thread I mentioned earlier, Anaris clarified that a lord building many temples by joining religions temporarily would be allowed. This thread asks the question of whether it would be allowed to rotate the lord quickly instead of rotating religion.

[Chenier]

I disagree with this game restriction, but as others have stated, for the moment, it's circumvention of game mechanics and thus not allowed.

[Velax]

re-what?

There was very little of that in medieval europe, including the times before christianity held sway. People were killed for having a different religion. Some like the jews were tolerated, mostly because they could conveniently be persecuted whenever you needed a scapegoat and partially because their religion was at least a variant (in BM terms).

I can not imagine the christian baron of an european barony to order the construction of, say, a temple to Wotan/Odin.

The fact remains that religious tolerance does exist in-game. Stating that it didn't exist in medieval times doesn't change that.

[Anaris]

The fact remains that religious tolerance does exist in-game. Stating that it didn't exist in medieval times doesn't change that.

The fact remains that a mechanism for building temples to religions you're not a member of does not exist in-game. Stating whatever you like about religious tolerance doesn't change that.

[Anaris]

In the other thread I mentioned earlier, Anaris clarified that a lord building many temples by joining religions temporarily would be allowed. This thread asks the question of whether it would be allowed to rotate the lord quickly instead of rotating religion.

Well, to be clear, I didn't say "it will be allowed"—I said "I don't see that it violates any rule."

Doing it the other way around, though, absolutely violates the placeholder rule, no matter what RP you put around it. A temporary lord is a temporary lord is a temporary lord, and those are not allowed.

[Gustav Kuriga]

You talk as if I would judge every single interaction, which is very far from the truth. SMA is more of a community thing, but since there needs to be someone who can make a final decision if there are different opinions, that happens to be me.

It is very rarely needed.

which was followed by this post...

re-what?

There was very little of that in medieval europe, including the times before christianity held sway. People were killed for having a different religion. Some like the jews were tolerated, mostly because they could conveniently be persecuted whenever you needed a scapegoat and partially because their religion was at least a variant (in BM terms).

I can not imagine the christian baron of an european barony to order the construction of, say, a temple to Wotan/Odin.

Funny you should mention variant... there happens to be an option for changing one religion's views of another as variant, and since jews were allowed to have their places of worship at times, when they weren't being scapegoats, it would make sense that the lord of a region could allow other religions to build there if their religion was held to be a variant of the lord's religion. Which he could then sack if said scapegoating occurred...

[Velax]

The fact remains that a mechanism for building temples to religions you're not a member of does not exist in-game. Stating whatever you like about religious tolerance doesn't change that.

...really? That's really immature, Anaris. Aside from the fact that your statement has no bearing, whatsoever, on my reply to Tom, where did I claim such a mechanic did exist? This entire thread is discussing an alternative given that region lords can't build temples to other religions.

[vonGenf]

Well, to be clear, I didn't say "it will be allowed"—I said "I don't see that it violates any rule."

It would be nice if these two things meant the same thing. The reason we ask these questions on the forum is to make sure we don't do anything that turns out not to be allowed. Barring forcing Tom to visit every thread, the word of a Dev is the best interpretation we have.

Doing it the other way around, though, absolutely violates the placeholder rule, no matter what RP you put around it. A temporary lord is a temporary lord is a temporary lord, and those are not allowed.

I absolutely agree.

[Anaris]

It would be nice if these two things meant the same thing. The reason we ask these questions on the forum is to make sure we don't do anything that turns out not to be allowed. Barring forcing Tom to visit every thread, the word of a Dev is the best interpretation we have.

I don't really disagree, but that's not exactly my call.

That is, in fact, somewhat the point.

[Tom]

The fact remains that religious tolerance does exist in-game.

Not really, no. Where do you see religious tolerance in the game? Priests can easily call on mobs to go and kill believers of other religions, for example. How does that amount to religious tolerance?

[Tom]

This entire thread is discussing an alternative given that region lords can't build temples to other religions.

Yes, this entire thread is about making something possible that the game does not allow. Please do as I asked in my first reply and stop thinking about the "how" and think about the "why" for a moment. Why does the game not allow you to build any temples of any religion? That restriction is there for a reason, you know?

Once you accept the premise, you'll understand that both rotating lords and rotating religions is a clear and obvious abuse of the game mechanics to circumvent restrictions of the game mechanics.

If you insist that there should be a way for having multiple temples of multiple religions in the same regions, then having them built by priests instead of lords would be the proper solution. That's a solution that makes sense and can be discussed, but it does have consequences that you should think about as well.

[Penchant]

Not really, no. Where do you see religious tolerance in the game? Priests can easily call on mobs to go and kill believers of other religions, for example. How does that amount to religious tolerance?

In game, as in how the characters actually act, not how the game wants to force them to act. Also, having the ability to call a mob does not make you religious intolerant, its actually doing that is being intolerant.

Yes, this entire thread is about making something possible that the game does not allow. Please do as I asked in my first reply and stop thinking about the "how" and think about the "why" for a moment. Why does the game not allow you to build any temples of any religion? That restriction is there for a reason, you know?

Once you accept the premise, you'll understand that both rotating lords and rotating religions is a clear and obvious abuse of the game mechanics to circumvent restrictions of the game mechanics.

If you insist that there should be a way for having multiple temples of multiple religions in the same regions, then having them built by priests instead of lords would be the proper solution. That's a solution that makes sense and can be discussed, but it does have consequences that you should think about as well.

I think the feature you suggested is great, but its annoying too. Wait a couple years, then you can have your religiously diverse region.