Mendicant Cheating

[Glaumring the Fox]

Wut?

My meaning is dont turn this into a witch hunt... And keep people like Chenier as far away from the decision making body or courtroom as possible.

[Indirik]

My meaning is dont turn this into a witch hunt... And keep people like Chenier as far away from the decision making body or courtroom as possible.

oh. Well, that actually makes your post make sense. :)

[Geronus]

We will still have around 15 regions and have 40+ nobles. That is in no way shape or from a small realm. I completely agree that we might have gold issues but they will not be as extreme as some of you might think. with the loss of 30 nobles mean we have 30 nobles more gold worth in estates. We also will still have very high cohesion between our armies.

I agree to an extent. This basically knocks you down from being... Whatever you were before... To being basically equivalent to Astrum or Morek the last time I looked at them. Yeah, maybe that's not super-win like Aurvandil was before but it's nothing to sneeze at on Dwilight, particularly with Terran in the middle of a massive collapse. Aurvandil also continues to enjoy major geographical advantages in that it's a long way from anything that can actually seriously threaten it. I predict they'll retrench and survive just fine.

And hey, with Mendicant out of the picture they'll probably also be a lot more humble. I mean, you'd really have to work at it to be as arrogant as that guy was.

[Lanyon]

Oh you've never met allomere.

[Geronus]

Oh you've never met allomere.

Actually I have. Truth be told I just assumed he was one of Mendicant's alter egos (probably for the same reason you mention him), but apparently I was wrong. I don't have a character on Dwilight anymore where I can see these things.

[Bael]

To allow the discourse to go in another direction, is anyone else happy that that ass got caught and everyone who thought he was a self-infatuated dick can now feel so many levels of smug?

Oh yes. Having played the ruler of Barca, this gives me a great feeling of satisfaction.

And look at this: http://www.battlemaster.org/UserDetails.php?ID=31463&HistoryLevel=3

This was a character/mendicant-person that SEVERELY pissed me off. They held Twainwood many months ago,  before the war started. And regardless of what I asked or suggested, they simply refused to change to the Twainville duchy. Twainwood - Twainville... Yeah. It was a mark of the Aurvandil break-away group: refusal to give in to logic. The same as Mendicant.

I'm sure that he was doing that just to piss me off.

I feel a bit disappointed that Frederick was not a part of it, but I suppose I knew that. He was irritating all on his own. And to state correctly: it was his actions and inaction that precipitated the start of events in the south, ultimately, although there were many contributions that helped it along.

And now I see why Mendicant originally sent such a weird letters to Barca, asking what changes we would make in order for our regions to be returned...because he was playing in the realm. I've always assumed that we had some people from Aurvandil with characters in Barca, especially with all the new accounts that we were getting. Although the more optimistic side of me always won out, until a few weeks ago.

[Phellan]

And now I see why Mendicant originally sent such a weird letters to Barca, asking what changes we would make in order for our regions to be returned...because he was playing in the realm. I've always assumed that we had some people from Aurvandil with characters in Barca, especially with all the new accounts that we were getting. Although the more optimistic side of me always won out, until a few weeks ago.

In Madina and Fissoa it was simply assumed we had multi's or spies from Mendicant in our ranks.

One too many times during massive battles did 1,2, even 3 nobles "cross over" after giving massive speaches about how corrupt we were whilst espousing perfect Aurvandil rhetoric.   I'm sure one or two of them were legit players moving over.   

Others, not so much.

[egamma]

I'm sure a lot of Barcans would like for the regions taken by multi accounts to be moved back to Barca.

[Chenier]

All right, then.

What, exactly, do you suggest be done?

A big GM Message warning about the evils of multicheating? Not like that'll change anything.

Zap the realm out of existence and turn everyone rogue? Not gonna happen; far too extreme.

You've clearly got all the answers, Chénier, so tell us, what should be done to prevent Aurvandil from walking off with the crown even without Mendicant and his multis?

Have the Zuma invade them, burn them to the ground. No, I don't see this as too extreme, given the extreme power they were given thanks to this cheating and the extreme impacts it had on Dwilight. And the Zuma are known to launch big attacks for very little. I've already said as much.

[Marlboro]

Chenier Rants #2 & #3

There's that handsome devil we all love to hate.

I retract my earlier kudos.

Edit: To clarify my position, Mendicant ruled by fear. He created a system where any disloyalty was met with disproportionate punishment, and absolute loyalty was seemingly rewarded (Though of course only his alts got any true power out of the deal). As far as I see it, if you played there you played by Mendicant's rules. Under such tyranny, it's not hard to see why a lot of players didn't question things.

Also, each of my characters only receives letters from a handful of people each day; most people aren't chatty cathys, and it would be really hard to tell if someone was multi-cheating from my end, particularly if it just seemed like they were silently following orders. I have a General on one island and a Marshal on the other, and the warriors in each army don't really talk to each other. For the most part, especially with regards to my Marshal, people just follow orders because that's how we win wars. For all they know, I could be controlling 60% of the army. The onus should not be upon the player to route out a cheater, especially since this is a game you can supposedly play with a total time investment of fifteen minutes a day. The bad rep that what remains of Aurvandil is now saddled with is its own punishment, since they're still at war with basically the whole world only without their cheeky little fascist at the head.

[Chenier]

And what about the innocent players of Aurvandil?

What about them? Were it not for the cheating, Aurvandil might have been destroyed in its egg by Madina. A lot of people who played in Aurvandil said how suspicious it was. I have no issue seeing a realm filled with people who don't care much about this being torn apart. They are collaborators as far as I'm concerned. People who let bad guys do their deeds may not be as bad as the people actually doing the deeds, but they certainly aren't in any way entitled to reap the benefits of the bad peoples' deeds.

Give it time and things will correct themselves.  Aurvandil didn't grow over night and it won't be overnight that they are put back into their place.

Why, so you can claim the bounty for yourself? They destroyed Madina, they crippled Barca and D'Hara, they made Terran explode, they probably prevented SA from turning on itself, they played a role in LV's failures, they slowed down Fissoa... The cheating did a !@#$load to Dwilight. Seriously major stuff. And even if Aurvandil will wane for this to happen, it will probably take some time for this to be truly noticeable and they'll still be able to surf on the victories of cheating. They already won all of their important wars, they don't need their strength anymore.

My meaning is dont turn this into a witch hunt... And keep people like Chenier as far away from the decision making body or courtroom as possible.

I never said any names, I never participated in any witch hunt. My character dislikes your realm, and I often find you irrational and annoying as a player, but I really couldn't care less for Asylon right now. You got a bunch of peace settlements, and will probably manage to get more. Your realm's weight in my opinions of the Aurvandilian cheating is precisely zero. This doesn't revolve around you at all. And I never said we should start looking for who benefited the most, who might have known something but didn't say...

Under such tyranny, it's not hard to see why a lot of players didn't question things.

Actually, no, I don't see this as making it any easier to see why things weren't questioned, because a ton of people have, in the past, stated how incredibly fishy the realm was run. Afraid questioning things, OOC (or even IC), will result in punishment? Why the !@#$ are you playing in such a realm?

The bad rep that what remains of Aurvandil is now saddled with is its own punishment, since they're still at war with basically the whole world only without their cheeky little fascist at the head.

That's a ridiculous argument to make. Aurvandil already won. They are at peace with Barca, D'Hara, and for all intents and purposes, Terran. Those are the only realms close enough to it to really matter. As for the other realms of mid distance, like Astrum and Farronite Republic, they already picked up a new war with Asylon, but even then they were too far away to do much anyways. The other realms at war basically have their troops auto-revolt the moment they arrive. Nobody can pose a serious threat to Aurvandil anymore. No one.

The onus should not be upon the player to route out a cheater, especially since this is a game you can supposedly play with a total time investment of fifteen minutes a day.

It doesn't take an hour a day to sense something is fishy. And it doesn't take an hour a day to just change realms. And heck, I never called for these players to be punished. I never asked for a witch hunt, to also lock the account of every collaborator who could have known something but didn't report it. All I'm calling for is that nobody benefit from this massive cheating. Playing in a realm is not an inalienable right. These players have no right to Aurvandil. If these players want glory and might, then sure, by all means, they can seek it. But they should seek it from scratch. They should have to gain it fairly. They should not inherit it from cheaters. There is no way to undo all of the damage the cheating has caused. But as it is, we treated the cancer to stop it from growing. Now, it's time to cut the tumor out. Time to burn Aurvandil from the ground, and let the honest players try to redo their rep and rebuild their realm.

[Kwanstein]

Your argument hinges on the idea that the players of Aurvandil benefited from the cheating. Can you really say that they benefited, when nearly all positions of power were held out of their reach? When they had virtually no say in how things were run? If anything the players of Aurvandil suffered the most, for, unbeknownst to them, they were merely pawns in the mad schemes of one man. If anything, they should recieve compensation.

[dustole]

The GM's investigated Aurvandil a few times from my understanding.  It took me some time in Aurvandil watching what was happening and talking to the nobles to begin to make some connections.  Finally I had enough of a suspicion to go to Tom.  I told him about 2 specific characters and why I thought they were multi's they were able to use that to pinpoint the multi accounts.  If the GM's didn't find them before, how can you expect average players to do so.  Even now characters/players are saying how great Mendicant is/was.  They are going to name him High Sovereign in perpetuity and create a Regency so that if Mendicant comes back or his "heir" shows up he can take the throne. 

I'm leaving Aurvandil.  It is a really wierd mentality in that realm.  With the 11 accounts locked and the 1 or 2 other accounts that weren't locked but auto paused at the same time they have lost 12-14 nobles.  I'm leaving and there will be about 10 of us.  I'm sure a few others will leave as well.   In the end they will have 30-40 nobles in a realm with 1 city.  I don't think things are going to go as well for them as Chenier thinks. 

Yea, it sucks that they get to keep all their ill gotten gains.  But look at Asylon.  Mendicant got them into the war and now they will be hung out to dry. 

When there is a bug in the game and people lose gold or some such you don't get it back.  This is just a similar !@#$ty situation.  RP it as best you can and deal with it as best you can.

[Indirik]

Can you really say that they benefited, when nearly all positions of power were held out of their reach? When they had virtually no say in how things were run?

If you willingly hold yourself in thrall to a tyrannical overlord, with no hope for advancement, and in constant fear of reprisal should you step out of line, then you deserve what you get. And that's not sympathy.

[Kwanstein]

If you willingly hold yourself in thrall to a tyrannical overlord, with no hope for advancement, and in constant fear of reprisal should you step out of line, then you deserve what you get. And that's not sympathy.

Positions doled out to loyal supporters? Malcontents punished? A tyrant who reigns supreme? The audacity! It's as if they thought they were playing a medieval sim or something.

Being serious for a moment, those are symptoms of just about every realm.