Author Topic: Infiltrators  (Read 3636 times)

Velax

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Infiltrators
« Topic Start: April 11, 2013, 03:36:41 PM »
For some time now, I have been training one of my characters as an infiltrator. He is now at ~80% Infiltration and ~80% Swordsmanship. When war came, I sent him into action. His first trip out, he stole 17 gold from one region and then killed some militia in another region (using the safest "kill militia" option). He was then caught by patrols at turn change. He escaped and on his second trip out he moved into an enemy region, spent one turn there without making any hostile actions and then was caught by patrols at turn change.

Is this experience typical for an infiltrator supposedly at high expert level? If so, it seems an extraordinarily poor return on the thousands of gold and months of real time put into the training.

vonGenf

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Re: Infiltrators
« Reply #1: April 11, 2013, 03:41:20 PM »
For some time now, I have been training one of my characters as an infiltrator. He is now at ~80% Infiltration and ~80% Swordsmanship. When war came, I sent him into action. His first trip out, he stole 17 gold from one region and then killed some militia in another region (using the safest "kill militia" option). He was then caught by patrols at turn change. He escaped and on his second trip out he moved into an enemy region, spent one turn there without making any hostile actions and then was caught by patrols at turn change.

Is this experience typical for an infiltrator supposedly at high expert level? If so, it seems an extraordinarily poor return on the thousands of gold and months of real time put into the training.

How many enemy units were in the region?

Did your infiltrator have any troops of his own?
After all it's a roleplaying game.

Kwanstein

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Re: Infiltrators
« Reply #2: April 11, 2013, 07:18:15 PM »
Lately I've witnessed other infiltrators being exceedingly ineffective themselves. It seems as though that for every successful mission there is there are two or three failures to make up for it. Perhaps it's just because the typical infiltrator is brash and low in skill. From my own experience I trained a character's infiltration skill to 40%, with the idea that I could train the rest through hands on experience. What ended up happening was I succeeded in assassinating a random adventurer, but then right after failed in an attempt to count and steal the tax gold of a rural region. These observations and experiences of mine with the class indicate to me that the class is indeed quite bad; it's usefulness is less than that of a warrior, the cost of training one is extremely high and, to top it off, being one poses a risk to one's prestige, honour and vitality.

Note: this was all on Dwilight. Perhaps the code is different there, as it is a testing island.

Ender

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Re: Infiltrators
« Reply #3: April 12, 2013, 04:29:27 PM »
I've already mentioned this to Velax OOC in the game itself, but I had an infiltrator on the East Continent for about two weeks. In that space of time I was captured, banned, captured, and deported and never once succeeded in anything. Since deporting basically resets the whole infiltrator class, I didn't feel like wasting my time trying it again.

I know my skill wasn't anything incredibly high, but I'd spent a fair bit of gold training to get myself ready and expected to at least be able to steal some gold.

I never really understand how some infiltrators are so effective. I can see wanting to make sure they aren't practically invincible, but as a whole they seem useless without some seriously intense investment and then you run of the risk of still being ineffective like Velax has been.

Anaris

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Re: Infiltrators
« Reply #4: April 12, 2013, 05:07:03 PM »
I know my skill wasn't anything incredibly high, but I'd spent a fair bit of gold training to get myself ready and expected to at least be able to steal some gold.

This may have been your mistake.

Do not underestimate the tax ninjas. They will catch you.

Do something less dangerous for a while, like assaulting tournament champions in heavily-guarded regions.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Velax

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Re: Infiltrators
« Reply #5: April 12, 2013, 05:17:49 PM »
How many enemy units were in the region?

Did your infiltrator have any troops of his own?

My infiltrator has no troops with him. Having a unit makes it a bit hard to sneak around enemy regions if you don't also have an army with you.

I believe there were two or three enemy units there the first time he was captured. I don't think there were any the second time.

vonGenf

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Re: Infiltrators
« Reply #6: April 12, 2013, 05:46:55 PM »
My infiltrator has no troops with him. Having a unit makes it a bit hard to sneak around enemy regions if you don't also have an army with you.

I believe there were two or three enemy units there the first time he was captured. I don't think there were any the second time.

My success rate is also very low when I don't control the battlefield. This is a high risk activity, I would only try it if the reward us accordingly high. 2/3 successes is actually pretty good.

You may have been simply unlucky the second time.
After all it's a roleplaying game.

Velax

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Re: Infiltrators
« Reply #7: April 12, 2013, 05:53:28 PM »
Two out of three successes at what? He wasn't assassinating nobles, he was auto-caught by "patrols" at turn change.

vonGenf

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Re: Infiltrators
« Reply #8: April 12, 2013, 05:55:48 PM »
Two out of three successes at what? He wasn't assassinating nobles, he was auto-caught by "patrols" at turn change.

Ah, sorry, mistead that. That means they were doing police work then, I think. That's dangerous.
After all it's a roleplaying game.

Anaris

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Re: Infiltrators
« Reply #9: April 12, 2013, 05:59:01 PM »
Ah, sorry, mistead that. That means they were doing police work then, I think. That's dangerous.

No...no, it doesn't.

Police work can increase the chances of catching an infiltrator in the act. It does not, so far as I can recall, change the chances of catching them with patrols—and even if it does, it's not necessary to have patrols catch them. It's perfectly possible for any unitless noble, infiltrator or not, to be captured by patrols in a region with no troops at all.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Velax

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Re: Infiltrators
« Reply #10: April 12, 2013, 06:00:56 PM »
Is that chance reduced for Infiltrators, given they are designed to act without a unit? And surely it should be based on an Infiltrator's Infil skill (to hide from patrols) and Swordsmanship (to fight his way out when caught).

Anaris

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Re: Infiltrators
« Reply #11: April 12, 2013, 06:01:41 PM »
Is that chance reduced for Infiltrators, given they are designed to act without a unit?

Yes.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Velax

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Re: Infiltrators
« Reply #12: April 12, 2013, 06:02:48 PM »
So to go back to my original question, was I just unlucky to be caught so easily twice?

Anaris

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Re: Infiltrators
« Reply #13: April 12, 2013, 06:03:10 PM »
So to go back to my original question, was I just unlucky to be caught so easily twice?

Probably.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Ender

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Re: Infiltrators
« Reply #14: April 12, 2013, 09:44:20 PM »
Quote
Do not underestimate the tax ninjas. They will catch you.

The gold must flow. I guess that would make nabbing sacks of tax gold a more dangerous task.