Gold/Food re-balance

[Astinus]

more food needed to be added.  If you add more food that adds power to the rurals.  It was counterbalanced with more gold to the cities.

Without adding gold to cities then regions like Shomrak, a rural would be more desirable.  It will have over 700 gold and over 500 food.  That would be more desirable than several of the cities and many townslands.  In fact it will still be more desirable than some of the cities and townslands. 

Everything can't be vanilla.  There has to be some chocolate chips in there.

And when it turned in "let's make townsland like rurals but without food"?

I'm obviously not a dev and I'm relatively a new player compared to most of you, but if the problem was adding more food and still having rurals in tone with the other regions, why cities got such huge gold boost, which honestly sounds pretty uneeded, considering that cities are already the biggest source of income available to a single character?

Is there really the need of making Margrave more influencial than what they already are?


EDIT: I have noticed that my post might sounds harsh, but I'm genuinely trying to understand the process behind those changes. They seem a step back into the feudal model introduced with estates to me.

[vonGenf]

If you add more food that adds power to the rurals.

That's not true. Less food means more power to the rurals, as their food is needed. More food gives more power to the cities who have an easier time not starving; and if the cities don't starve then having surplus food is useless on the continental level.

I think this is a good change, but it can't be painted as a plus for the rurals when it does the contrary.

[vonGenf]

EDIT: I have noticed that my post might sounds harsh, but I'm genuinely trying to understand the process behind those changes.

Actually, a dev statement of the original purpose of the changes and how the new system addresses them would be useful. I remember from other threads what the complaints about food were, especially with regards to overall sustainability, but I don't remember the reason for changing the gold values.

[LilWolf]

Guess what: until the playerbase increases significantly, they have no hope for knights.

So the solution is to put everyone in cities and make margraves the all powerful force in the realm? They'll have all the gold and all the knights. That is a step in the wrong direction no matter how you put it, no matter how many players we have.

And if we balanced the game for the playerbase we want, instead of the playerbase we have, we would soon find that we're going even further in the wrong direction.

The point is, the current region values are much better than what you're trying to push through. What problem exactly are these new numbers trying to solve? What, exactly, is broken? How is this going to make the game more fun compared to the current situation?

[Eldargard]

I like what I see so far. I would like to see the limit on gold per bushel increased or removed though. If cities really are gaining so much gold, I think we need to ensure that the rurals have some kind of power in the form of trade. I never really understood the cap anyways... Just my thought!

[Woelfy]

I must say, I am not pleased with how Balance's Retreat is lined up. A loss in food and coin? It's the second largest Stronghold on Dwilight, and has a river...

Why is it continually getting shafted? Holdover thinking from the original days of Dwi? Hatred of the area on the map? Seriously, this makes no sense to me.

[Indirik]

They seem a step back into the feudal model introduced with estates to me.

Umm... did you really just kind of complain that the game is too feudal? Or am I just not understanding what you're saying here?

The game is not intended for everything to be equal, or equivalent, or whatever other word menas that every character has the same opportunity. Some characters will be richer than others. A very few will be filthy stinking rich, and have units of 150 cavalry that cost as much to maintain as another duchy's entire army. Don't like it? Kick his ass to the curb and take it for yourself.

Most of the people will end up somewhere in the middlex though.

[Terises Jr.]

I hope this gold/food rebalance will be edited.. I'm new player and just got lordship of rural region.. And my region loss more than 80 gold with small increases of food.. So how can i increase my family gold? With small income my family will always poor..
Can we send food to family? Its rare opportunity to get city (many gold)  and i only hope to get townsland in the future but that rebalance let me think one more time.,

[Anaris]

I must say, I am not pleased with how Balance's Retreat is lined up. A loss in food and coin? It's the second largest Stronghold on Dwilight, and has a river...

Why is it continually getting shafted? Holdover thinking from the original days of Dwi? Hatred of the area on the map? Seriously, this makes no sense to me.

As has been stated before, this rebalance is based purely on algorithms, and has no individual tweaking for specific regions or areas.

We're not entirely happy with what's happened to the mountainous regions on Dwilight either, though, and we've been authorized to boost their population to compensate. That is not reflected in the rebalance numbers, unfortunately, because it will require specific manual tweakage.

[Anaris]

I hope this gold/food rebalance will be edited.. I'm new player and just got lordship of rural region.. And my region loss more than 80 gold with small increases of food.. So how can i increase my family gold? With small income my family will always poor..
Can we send food to family? Its rare opportunity to get city (many gold)  and i only hope to get townsland in the future but that rebalance let me think one more time.,

I'm sorry to pick on you, Terises, but I'm afraid I'm going to use you as an example of the wrong kind of thinking.

There is not, and should not be, any guarantee that a given noble, or a given Lord, can enrich their family.

There is not, and should not be, any guarantee that having a region lordship will suddenly make you rich, and able to do whatever you want.

There should be different levels of the hierarchy that are meaningfully different.

There should be something for a knight, a rural lord, a townsland lord, a city lord, and even a duke or a ruler to aspire to. It should not be possible, in general, for someone to get a Lordship within their first few weeks in the game and get all the income they could ever want. That's bad game design—it front-loads the rewards, and leaves nothing to work for.

I think everyone needs to step back and realize that "fair" doesn't mean "everyone is equal", and "fun" doesn't mean "everyone gets handed everything they want without effort."

[Geronus]

I hope this gold/food rebalance will be edited.. I'm new player and just got lordship of rural region.. And my region loss more than 80 gold with small increases of food.. So how can i increase my family gold? With small income my family will always poor..
Can we send food to family? Its rare opportunity to get city (many gold)  and i only hope to get townsland in the future but that rebalance let me think one more time.,

What you really want is an estate in a city. Less responsibility, more gold.

Lordships have their perks though; in some realms, it means you get to vote in a Senate. You can also sell your food to other lords, though I'm not certain what this rebalance is going to do to food prices; logic suggests that it won't be good since all islands are moving into surplus. Simple market mechanics mean that will probably create downward pressure on prices.

In the end though, the real answer to your complaint is, strive harder. If your character's goal is to make gold and boost his family wealth, then start scheming your way toward a better lordship. Rise through the ranks and make yourself known so that you move toward the front of the line for the next city that does come up for grabs. Start lobbying for your realm to go to ward with those jerks across the river and take their cities.

And the next time you make a new character, consider where he goes. Lower population realms tend to have more opportunities. Islands like Dwilight and Beluaterra have very high region-to-noble ratios and faster turnover than, say, Atamara.

[Terises Jr.]

I just want gold to get the family wealth fame.. So i can play my third noble.. no need to collect more than 5000gold..

[^ban^]

logic suggests that it won't be good since all islands are moving into surplus

This is misleading, and incorrect.

Available food was increased only on Dwilight.

Everywhere else, it was found to be in incredible excess, and decreased. All islands will now have approximately the same percentage net surplus available.

[Scarlett]

The notion that a region would be systematically dependent upon another for food is a gameplay construct. Any 'region' in medieval Europe could feed itself because the primary occupant of peasants was agriculture - up until you had inreased efficiency such that peasants could go to do something else.

Starvation was brought on by famine or war, not by the fundamental inability of most any piece of land to feed the people who lived there. If the region couldn't produce enough food, fewer people lived there. Mountain strongholds too: you wouldn't build a stronghold that didn't have a food supply.

Cities generally starved last unless they were blockaded or under siege. Rural lords always took their share of serfs' crops but city wealth meant that people would come in from all over to sell stuff there. Rural lords also had more control over their populations because they pretty much controlled the economy - nobles in urban areas had to contend with burghers and mayors.

This is of course just an observation and not a criticism, since you need some dependencies for the game to make sense.

[^ban^]

I can't say I like the numbers I'm seeing in any way. On Beluaterra the trend seems to be less gold and less food produced for rurals.

This is absolutely correct and not something that will be changing. Beluaterra was operating at a SIXTY EIGHT PERCENT SUPLUS in food.