Offtopic

[Tom]

You are not serious right? You are gonna rule a case about something said on a FB group WHICH IS NOT AN OFFICIAL BM GROUP WITH NO RULES? THIS IS A JOKE.

I'm not commenting on the case itself, but:

We have a long standing rule that anything not in-game or on the official forum is outside the scope of the Titans, Magistrates or even GMs. If someone was harrassed on Facebook, then Facebook is the authority to appeal to.

[Anaris]

I'm not commenting on the case itself, but:

We have a long standing rule that anything not in-game or on the official forum is outside the scope of the Titans, Magistrates or even GMs. If someone was harrassed on Facebook, then Facebook is the authority to appeal to.

I believe this is a policy that we both can and should reverse.

Just because a BattleMaster player takes their harassment of another BattleMaster player to email, IRC, or Facebook (or any other medium) doesn't mean they should be entirely exempt from responsibility for their actions. In particular, I believe it is both possible and appropriate to state officially that all interactions within the context of the Facebook group are subject to the Social Contract.

[Gustav Kuriga]

I'm not commenting on the case itself, but:

We have a long standing rule that anything not in-game or on the official forum is outside the scope of the Titans, Magistrates or even GMs. If someone was harrassed on Facebook, then Facebook is the authority to appeal to.

Even if they harass the person for Battlemaster related actions? I'm sorry, but that seems like a good way of saying "Harass people all you like, just not in this specific place."

[Anaris]

Even if they harass the person for Battlemaster related actions? I'm sorry, but that seems like a good way of saying "Harass people all you like, just not in this specific place."

I completely agree with this.

Facebook may have authorities that one could go to and complain if one was being harassed there, but what of a sustained campaign of harassment from multiple people in multiple media? A nasty PM on Facebook, a string of rude emails, a few OOC messages in-game, PM spam on IRC...

If the one common thread in all this is a BM-playing victim and BM-playing perpetrators, then it is the authority of BM that should be brought to bear.

[skiarxon@gmail.com]

I completely agree with this.

Facebook may have authorities that one could go to and complain if one was being harassed there, but what of a sustained campaign of harassment from multiple people in multiple media? A nasty PM on Facebook, a string of rude emails, a few OOC messages in-game, PM spam on IRC...

If the one common thread in all this is a BM-playing victim and BM-playing perpetrators, then it is the authority of BM that should be brought to bear.

I disagree. There have been cases over the years where players harass others via mail or irc. After being brought to Tom his answer was to deal with it oog. I don't think this should be changed. MAgistrates have a certain job. To deal with problems that arise inside BM. Not in any groups outside. Especially when that group on FB is not an official BM group neither there are rules on the group. If that changes in the future ok but in this case I say leave it as it is.

[Gustav Kuriga]

So we're saying that harassing is ok, so long as it is in private? That makes sooo much sense.

[skiarxon@gmail.com]

So we're saying that harassing is ok, so long as it is in private? That makes sooo much sense.

Punishing someone for something that happened in a group without specific rules is so much better. Right?

[Anaris]

Punishing someone for something that happened in a group without specific rules is so much better. Right?

Right. Because as long as there are no "specific rules," people have no idea that they shouldn't flame, harass, insult, or otherwise verbally abuse other people.

[Indirik]

Punishing someone for something that happened in a group without specific rules is so much better. Right?

IMNSHO, yes. Yes it is.

We, as a community, should stand up for ourselves, and our fellow players. We should not be subject to abuse from other players, especially in official or semi-official venues. Simply because a venue, which exists for the sole purpose of BattleMaster players to socialize with each other, doesn't have an official declaration that it follows the BattleMaster social contract, doesn't mean that people there are free to harass, abuse, haze, bully, etc. other players. When it is brought to our attention by one of our players is doing this to another of our players, we should address the situation. The fact that the behavior takes place on the other side of some imaginary line is irrelevant.

The rule is "don't harass other players" not "don't harass other players right in front of our faces".

[skiarxon@gmail.com]

Yeah. But you seem to forget that what Kyle did was to express his disgust on the group about the whole situation of Dwilight. Then someone had to reply with QQ and stir things up. Kyle responded in private and still we don't know what the other side told to him before the incident (if that happened). If you rule this case out then everyone can come and make complaints for stupid reasons just because they have to do with BM.

[Anaris]

Yeah. But you seem to forget that what Kyle did was to express his disgust on the group about the whole situation of Dwilight. Then someone had to reply with QQ and stir things up. Kyle responded in private and still we don't know what the other side told to him before the incident (if that happened). If you rule this case out then everyone can come and make complaints for stupid reasons just because they have to do with BM.

I'm not trying to argue that Kyle should be punished for this, Skiarxon. As you may recall, I waxed eloquent on why he should not be punished further not long ago.

What I'm trying to argue is that the Magistrates do—or should—have jurisdiction over harassment that occurs outside of the game and forums.

[Indirik]

I am not commenting on the merit or specifics of this particular case. (But if there were extenuating circunstances/provocations, then Kyle needs to produce them.) That is something for the Magistrates to rule on, not me. (I'm not a Magistrate.) What I'm saying is that if one BattleMaster player is getting harassed by another BattleMaster player, they should bring it to our attention. We need to stick up for our players (who should, ideally, all be our friends in this small community) and not tolerate abuse and harassment.

[Woelfy]

I have given evidence of being harassed outside of proper game channels before, and I ended up being the one reprimanded. Why on earth would i waste my time copying and pasting anything when it will just be turned around by the very same people harassing me, in order to punish me?

As I stated on the FB group, I am finished with all non-game venues of speech.
If I recieve one more harassing email or private message, on any social media website, I shall respond in kind.
I tried your 'system', and have found it lacking in justice and sense.

To Shizzle: if you are in fact not one of my continued assailants, then I do apologize for my private fb message.

[Shizzle]

Yeah. But you seem to forget that what Kyle did was to express his disgust on the group about the whole situation of Dwilight. Then someone had to reply with QQ and stir things up. Kyle responded in private and still we don't know what the other side told to him before the incident (if that happened). If you rule this case out then everyone can come and make complaints for stupid reasons just because they have to do with BM.

http://i.imgur.com/OFHPnQQ.png

[Shizzle]

To Shizzle: if you are in fact not one of my continued assailants, then I do apologize for my private fb message.

Excellent. I consider this whole thing over and done.

In the meantime I've also come to realise I was being to harsh concerning RP in Thalmarkin. Sure it's not to my liking, but non-canonical doesn't mean rubbish. My apologies - I'll see myself out fo Thalmarkin if I'm disturbed any further.