Author Topic: Unnecessary Racist Slur  (Read 29649 times)

Velax

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Re: Unnecessary Racist Slur
« Reply #15: May 27, 2013, 05:48:41 AM »
Yeah, because in the Middle Ages nobody was racist at all. Nope. All races were equal, and interracial communities thrived and prospered all over the world. Such a shame someone would go as far as to IMPLY a pseudo-racist remark on an NPC in a SMA setting...

Come on guys, we're not kids. I've seen stuff much worse than this being said in the SA channel, and everyone understood that it was just an IC thing. Why not now?

Because when making comments that could be taken as racist, you have to consider your audience. You might mess around with your Asian friends about "slant eyes" or "round eyes", but would you go along to the National Conference of Asian American Professionals and make a slant eyes joke? Probably not. You don't know all of the people you're playing with, so the smart thing to do would be to stay away from anything that could be construed as racist. Talking about "slanted eyes" most certainly qualifies. Where I live that would be considered a racist insult.

Penchant

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Re: Unnecessary Racist Slur
« Reply #16: May 27, 2013, 05:58:07 AM »
So...kinda looks like you all are pulling things out of the air. Just because I called some asian lazy doesn't mean I am racist. Saying all asians are lazy is racist. His letter said the person was lazy and asian, not that asians were lazy and that was why the person was lazy.
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Re: Unnecessary Racist Slur
« Reply #17: May 27, 2013, 06:02:39 AM »
Well, speaking as a person brought here looking to see if there has been any Word on the matter by He who is Tom, I must say that I am left with about the same feelings now that I had when I started looking into this.

Speaking as a Caucasian of mongolian decent (although, who isn't?) who is RPing a Mongolian of mixed blood (although, who, wait, I did that joke...), I must say that if this was me dealing with it in character, I might have some pointed words with our realm's diplomat. 

That said, this IS a SMA continent, racism was historically prevalent (So is syphilis the French Disease?  Turkish?  Spanish?  Anyone want to claim this for their country and/or race?  How about a rousing discussion about Blood Libel?), and the phrasing was open enough to be debatable as to who was being racist IMO.

It's not something I would do, I think, but in the context of the rule and the environment, I don't think slapping Kas for this is fair.  Thinkng less of Kas for it?  Sure.  Less of Kas's player?  Fine.  But punishment based on no actual breach of BM's laws or the guidelines for messaging (where racism is not really referenced and no swear words were used) is bluntly unfair.
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Velax

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Re: Unnecessary Racist Slur
« Reply #18: May 27, 2013, 06:04:29 AM »
I couldn't care less about the lazy comment. It's the "slanted eyes" I have an issue with. And no, it's not "just a description". Calling an African-American the N-word could be "just a description" too, as the root of the word is from the "Latin/Spanish/Italian/whatever Romance language it was" for "black", yet the connotations behind that word go much deeper. As to references to slant eyes.

Vellos

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Re: Unnecessary Racist Slur
« Reply #19: May 27, 2013, 06:05:32 AM »
Well, speaking as a person brought here looking to see if there has been any Word on the matter by He who is Tom, I must say that I am left with about the same feelings now that I had when I started looking into this.

Speaking as a Caucasian of mongolian decent (although, who isn't?) who is RPing a Mongolian of mixed blood (although, who, wait, I did that joke...), I must say that if this was me dealing with it in character, I might have some pointed words with our realm's diplomat. 

That said, this IS a SMA continent, racism was historically prevalent (So is syphilis the French Disease?  Turkish?  Spanish?  Anyone want to claim this for their country and/or race?  How about a rousing discussion about Blood Libel?), and the phrasing was open enough to be debatable as to who was being racist IMO.

It's not something I would do, I think, but in the context of the rule and the environment, I don't think slapping Kas for this is fair.  Thinkng less of Kas for it?  Sure.  Less of Kas's player?  Fine.  But punishment based on no actual breach of BM's laws or the guidelines for messaging (where racism is not really referenced and no swear words were used) is bluntly unfair.

This makes sense to me.
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Penchant

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Re: Unnecessary Racist Slur
« Reply #20: May 27, 2013, 06:48:22 AM »
I couldn't care less about the lazy comment. It's the "slanted eyes" I have an issue with. And no, it's not "just a description". Calling an African-American the N-word could be "just a description" too, as the root of the word is from the "Latin/Spanish/Italian/whatever Romance language it was" for "black", yet the connotations behind that word go much deeper. As to references to slant eyes.
So umm... how is calling someone the N-word a description? That's just a slur and describes nothing other than implying they African-American (which I hate saying because I honestly see nothing wrong with saying black). Asians do generally have slanted eyes on the other hand, thus being an actual description. That, and I have never heard slanted eyes as some bad connotation with chinese. A connotation, sure, but I have never heard "slanted eyes" used as something bad. 
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Velax

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Re: Unnecessary Racist Slur
« Reply #21: May 27, 2013, 06:52:46 AM »
So umm... how is calling someone the N-word a description?

as the root of the word is from the "Latin/Spanish/Italian/whatever Romance language it was" for "black"

Please do read my posts before you respond to them. Where do you think the word came from originally? From the meaning for "black" in Spanish. A descriptive word!

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Re: Unnecessary Racist Slur
« Reply #22: May 27, 2013, 08:16:48 AM »
Negro is Spanish for black, and a derogatory term for a person of African descent. What was said is on the same level as if Kas had referred to his scribe as a his puffy lipped Negro. Its just as bad.
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Shizzle

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Re: Unnecessary Racist Slur
« Reply #23: May 27, 2013, 09:15:47 AM »
I couldn't care less about the lazy comment. It's the "slanted eyes" I have an issue with. And no, it's not "just a description". Calling an African-American the N-word could be "just a description" too, as the root of the word is from the "Latin/Spanish/Italian/whatever Romance language it was" for "black", yet the connotations behind that word go much deeper. As to references to slant eyes.

Connotations are not universal.

With the right crowd (even black people), I'm sure I could get away with using nigger. The important thing is to make clear I have no malicious intent. Unless otherwise indicated, we should assume these things are benign - this would fall into 'playing the game as with friends'. Just the usage of the word slanted shouldn't mean the comment is racist, and seeing it's IC being racist (not even towards another character but an NPC) alone shouldn't warrant penalty.

If this is considered racist, tomorrow we'll have obese people complaining about fat NPCs and cellar dwellers about characters getting laid.

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Re: Unnecessary Racist Slur
« Reply #24: May 27, 2013, 10:27:42 AM »
Not acceptable by me. There are clear racial references. Warning for first time offence. Ready to vote.

Lavigna

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Re: Unnecessary Racist Slur
« Reply #25: May 27, 2013, 10:42:38 AM »
Not acceptable by me. There are clear racial references. Warning for first time offence. Ready to vote.

Same.Most of the times the worse offenses start off with an innocent yet offensive joke.
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Velax

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Re: Unnecessary Racist Slur
« Reply #26: May 27, 2013, 10:43:02 AM »
Connotations are not universal.

With the right crowd (even black people), I'm sure I could get away with using nigger. The important thing is to make clear I have no malicious intent. Unless otherwise indicated, we should assume these things are benign - this would fall into 'playing the game as with friends'. Just the usage of the word slanted shouldn't mean the comment is racist

Utterly ridiculous. This isn't "the right crowd". I'm sure there are places in the world that I could get away with having a Swastika tattoo, for example. But it's been made pretty clear that referring to such things here is not okay. "Playing the game with friends" does not mean you can say the same sort of thing to anyone in the game that you would to your friends and think it's alright. My friends and I call each other dickhead and !@#$wit all the time and we know it's just a joke. Calling people those names in game, IC or OOC, would not be alright, and using phrases with racial overtones is even worse.

and seeing it's IC being racist (not even towards another character but an NPC) alone shouldn't warrant penalty.

Then be IC racist against IC races/nationalities. Call them D'Haran scum or Arcaean sheep-!@#$ers. Do not be racist about RL races.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2013, 10:45:15 AM by Velax »

Shizzle

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Re: Unnecessary Racist Slur
« Reply #27: May 27, 2013, 12:19:01 PM »
Utterly ridiculous. This isn't "the right crowd". I'm sure there are places in the world that I could get away with having a Swastika tattoo, for example. But it's been made pretty clear that referring to such things here is not okay. "Playing the game with friends" does not mean you can say the same sort of thing to anyone in the game that you would to your friends and think it's alright. My friends and I call each other dickhead and !@#$wit all the time and we know it's just a joke. Calling people those names in game, IC or OOC, would not be alright, and using phrases with racial overtones is even worse.

Then be IC racist against IC races/nationalities. Call them D'Haran scum or Arcaean sheep-!@#$ers. Do not be racist about RL races.

Good points, but two things I disagree with:
-Calling each other names (as in other players) is not the same thing as a character thinking ill of an NPC based on appearance and expressing that opinion. Did the player direct this at any character in particular? To another player? No. People taking offense to this would be sympathising with a three word NPC character that won't even exist long enough to see the sun go down.
-D'Haran or Arcaean aren't races. Even in BM we would expect people to be causasian, asian, african, ... In real life racism isn't fair because you can't change the colour of your skin, but in BM you can do just that. As long as we, as a community, assure not one single race is being targetted consistently, I can't see a problem with IC racism.

We can hate on in-game nationalities and religious beliefs, why not races? When a character of mine attacks a Triunist for being polytheistic will the Buddhist playerbase take offense?

Note: I detest racism in real life and have often fought and argued against it. But pretending it doesn't exist won't do any good for anybody. So bring on the hate against those wide-eyed white people, because they're fat and lazy too!
Note 2: I wouldn't use racial comments myself, in BM or anywhere else, because I consider them wrong IR and tasteless in BM. But that doesn't mean I think it should be prohibited. BM needs evil characters as well, and they're not supposed to be likeable.

Did I manage to bring my point across, at least somewhat?

Edit: a word.

Lavigna

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Re: Unnecessary Racist Slur
« Reply #28: May 27, 2013, 12:43:18 PM »
Did the player direct this at any character in particular? To another player? No.

No indeed.This is directed to a whole nation. And i don't even care if someone actually took offense at it. I personally did and i am not even Asian.And that along is enough.

Allowing this in game may later on "endorce" the use of it. There are plenty ways to make an npc look stupid or lazy and NONE of these ways should have a reference to real existing races or the way they look. This is totally unacceptable.
Even as a joke.

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Shizzle

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Re: Unnecessary Racist Slur
« Reply #29: May 27, 2013, 12:59:36 PM »
Allowing this in game may later on "endorce" the use of it.

And not allowing it may endorce further censorship (the only reason I have been posting here).
Also asian is not a nationality, and again: we all know and use stereotypes. Where do you draw the line?

In any case it's not my decision to make, I'm just curious about your reasoning.