Appealing a Titan decision

[Geronus]

Reposted this, as it evaded my topic split.

Not relevant to the specific topic, but as it has been brought up, I suspect this might be why the government positions were removed by the Titans. I was curious and searched my messages.

Letter from Auril Mayhem   (11 days, 7 hours ago)
Message sent to everyone in your realm (21 recipients)
Enweil,

We are in crisis right now, and this demand action, so I am taking the lead in this matter I will be very glad if our General take the lead on this matter, but I need awnsers now, since war is imminent. At least I will compile the information.

I need to know your strenght in combat (CS) and how much more soldiers you can have, also your income, because since our realm in not in a stabilized position and we have many lands no producitonly thriving, this will be required too.

I would like to ask for our Magistrate of Trade Ed, to come aid me on the gold matter.

Obiviously I will take note of our fortification at our cities, so by start I want you to hire archers, since we will start defending (I believe, we should not start the war, this is not what we do, also we need to strengthen ourselves first.) The most logical reason is to defend at our city walls with archers.

Those exceptions are the nobles who feel safe enough to go in open combat, and have the need to feel the blood of your enemies running through you hands, I perfectly understand what you feel, I would like to do the same, but we can not risk to be caugh, and we expect their army to be at least three times bigger than ours, This is not actually the numbers, but is something around. If this is true, which we still need to confirm. We will have huge losses in open battlefield with many going on hand.

So the exceptions are the nobles who are known to be highly trained swordman, you are allowed to recruit infantry. I know many of you are, but I do not wish to lose anyone by mistake.

Yours,
Auril Mayhem
Chief Justice of Enweil
Countess of Shifgrethor

[Vellos]

Ideally, the message listed above should have been a Magistrates case, not a Titans case so, whoever reported it: IMHO, you misreported.

However, the Titan action seems totally fair to me.

And seriously Mayhem: your characters do lots of fun and interesting things, true. But because you do interesting stuff doesn't mean you can just spam the system, break the rules, and insult the people who work hard to make the game work.

[Bael]

Ideally, the message listed above should have been a Magistrates case, not a Titans case so, whoever reported it: IMHO, you misreported.

Why magistrates? It involves IR, which is what Titans deal with.

[Geronus]

I don't think it's ever been officially clarified what should come to us vs. what should come to the Titans. Technically speaking, we were only supposed to be active on the Testing islands when we were set up; clearly that restriction didn't last long.

I have my notions of how our responsibilities should break down, but nothing has yet been made official by Tom. The respective pages say the following:

Contact the Titans... - send complaints about another player

The Titans are our most trusted players who are watching the game to make sure that the many good players do not suffer from some abusers and cheaters. You can contact them using this form, and bring someone else to their attention if you think that someone is cheating, abusing the game, being exceptionally offensive or otherwise should be reprimanded or removed from the game.

The job of the Titans is to combat abuses and cheating. They are not for general support, bug reports, questions, etc. Please use the bugtracker for bug reports and the forum for questions.
They are also not for minor issues of in-game injustice. The middle ages were not a nice time, and a certain amount of arbitrariness and evil is part of the game.

Contact the Magistrate... - send complaints about another player (new, experimental system)

 Sometimes, players break the Inalienable Rights or violate the Social Contract. For those cases, a group of volunteer players known as the Magistrates can reprimand or temporarily lock out these players so they learn to behave. The Magistrates are not for general support, bug reports, questions, etc. Please use the bugtracker for bug reports and the forum for questions. They are also not for issues of in-game injustice. The middle ages were not a nice time, and a certain amount of arbitrariness and evil is part of the game.

Please provide the details of your complaint below. Give us a short summary in as few words as possible, as well as a more detailed report of what happened. The more information you provide, the fewer questions will need to be asked.
You also need to make your complaint against a specific player or his character, and point out which Inalienable Right or clause of the Social Contract you believe was violated.
Complaints without these specifics will be rejected without deliberation.

All complaints will be arbitrated in open court. This means your identity will become known to everyone who cares to look, especially the person you are complaining about, who will be informed about the complaint so they can present their version.
We are aware that in-game retribution for complaints remains a possibility. We are also very clear that such acts are strongly frowned upon and if someone wishes to play that kind of games, we have the bigger guns. So don't be afraid to complain if you believe you do have a case.

More details about the magistrate system are available on the courthouse board.

However in practice, it's clear that all sorts of things are being reported to both bodies; it's pretty much the player's choice as to whom he expects will provide a more favorable response. In theory, they could even start with the Titans and then move on to us if they didn't get a decision they liked and we would never know unless someone involved pointed out what happened.

[Geronus]

Why magistrates? It involves IR, which is what Titans deal with.

So do we, if you read the quotes I just posted... At the present time, both bodies are basically accepting all cases brought to them, with very few exceptions. Well, maybe the Titans are turning down some, but I wouldn't know that for sure. Evidently they'll still take IR cases though if this one is any example.

[Anaris]

The dev team is considering the fate of the Titans. They may be largely disbanded in their current form. At present, any case of IR or Social Contract violation could be at least as well handled by the Magistrates, and cases of suspected multicheating have been being referred to the devs for more in-depth investigation for years now.

The only specific task we can think of offhand that we do not, at this time, feel that another body is better to delegate to is the handling of SMA reports on Dwilight.

[Indirik]

IMNSHO - if you want a resolution during the same geological epoch in which you filed the report, use the Magistrates. Unless it involves multi-accounting. Multi reports are best investigated by the Titans, who will refer the case to the dev team.

[Chenier]

IMNSHO - if you want a resolution during the same geological epoch in which you filed the report, use the Magistrates. Unless it involves multi-accounting. Multi reports are best investigated by the Titans, who will refer the case to the dev team.

Indeed, because magistrates lack investigation tools and multi-cheating investigations should not be done in public.

[^ban^]

At present, any case of IR or Social Contract violation could be at least as well handled by the Magistrates, and cases of suspected multicheating have been being referred to the devs for more in-depth investigation for years now.

The only specific task we can think of offhand that we do not, at this time, feel that another body is better to delegate to is the handling of SMA reports on Dwilight.

Also the ability to, well, actually punish characters.

Holy !@#$ do we need to make a proper Magistrate interface.

[Anaris]

Also the ability to, well, actually punish characters.

Holy !@#$ do we need to make a proper Magistrate interface.

Write up a concise description of what it must do, what it should do, and what you'd like it to do, and I'll see what I can come up with as soon as I can.

[Velax]

I am utterly baffled as to how you are confusing these issues, Mayhem.

No character is under any circumstances allowed to dictate to a noble the type of unit they field. This particularly applies to members of a realm's government. This is made clear in the government rules and inalienable rights every character in such a position is linked when they first arrive in these positions. Furthermore, this is not a new rule, and ignorance of it is not an excuse.

I find it completely unnecessary to include 'very short with slanted eyes and a yellowish skin' in the description when lazy or other behavior-based descriptions would've sufficed. BM is a game played by a wide range of ethnicities and part of playing is learning to be courteous and respectful to one's fellow players, as if they're friends.

How are these even vaguely related? How would you think getting punished for breaking IRs is actually the punishment for being racist?

[GoldPanda]

The dev team is considering the fate of the Titans. They may be largely disbanded in their current form. At present, any case of IR or Social Contract violation could be at least as well handled by the Magistrates, and cases of suspected multicheating have been being referred to the devs for more in-depth investigation for years now.

The only specific task we can think of offhand that we do not, at this time, feel that another body is better to delegate to is the handling of SMA reports on Dwilight.

Please don't take away the Titans. Not everyone uses the forums, and some of the newer/younger players may be too intimidated to openly and publicly accuse a much more established player. The best thing about the Titans is that it protects the identity of the accuser.

I believe the Magistrates should handle the gray areas, while Titans deal with clear and blatant abuses and IR violations.

[Anaris]

Please don't take away the Titans. Not everyone uses the forums, and some of the newer/younger players may be too intimidated to openly and publicly accuse a much more established player. The best thing about the Titans is that it protects the identity of the accuser.

The Titans, frankly, are pretty much gone.

They can't finalize any decision with less than 3 Titans weighing in, and in a good week, 2 of them might log in.

[Velax]

Could always appoint more Titans.

[^ban^]

The Titans, frankly, are pretty much gone.

They can't finalize any decision with less than 3 Titans weighing in, and in a good week, 2 of them might log in.

They only need two...