What does Atamara need to happen?

[Indirik]

Coria might be an interesting place to be, but as a player I would feel guilty joining them while they were still fighting Darka.   

[Ender]

I've always thought about playing in Darka, but I think Coria sounds pretty interesting based on what I see about it on the forums. I'm planning on keeping myself at one character fairly soon though since I don't always have the time to dedicate that I'd like and a new character would be a big time investment.

[Perth]

Do you really think that no one is going to correct you on statements like this?  Arturius and his supporters pressured Kerwin to get tough with Darka regarding their stance on Talerium.  Kerwin is the one who suggested attacking Darka in a  suicide move that was shot down by Arturius before Elroy sent the information to his fellow members of the Darkanism faith.

Kerwin was a poor diplomat and weak, arrogant leader...that is why we Rieleston folks got tired of Eston...not some OOC conspiracy.

That simply isn't true at all. You like to come on here and act arrogant and insult me and my characters and then disappear whenever I ask you to clarify or challenge the crap you spew out. Literally I think the only posts you have on this forum are ones where you try to attack me and call me a liar. It needs to stop.

Kerwin was not a poor diplomat. He essentially put together the northern alliance and even brought in Carelia--not an easy task. He wasn't weak either. He commanded quite a lot of power. The only reason the Rieleston secession even succeeded was because they did it in the waning days of the Kingdom and while it was being invaded by the Cagilans/Tarans. Otherwise it would've been squashed.

But, yes, he was arrogant! That is how I always played him. He was a King, after all. Kale is the opposite, much more level headed and calm.

Arturius INSISTED many times that we violate Darka's trust and move through through regions to attack Talerium without Darka's permission. Kerwin refused to let him do so. Arturius even took troops and tried to do so anyways a couple of times. Luka was constantly reprimanding him for it.

Arturius always held a grudge against Kerwin for NOT trying to retake Massillion and for allying with them. Yeah, Kerwin would have liked to one day see Massillion returned, but it was never something that was considered within the context of the war against the Cagilans. It was an idea for a post-Cagilan dominated Atamara.

Kerwin was close with Kostaja, they were friends and they butted heads sometimes. Mostly because Kerwin spent the better part of two years trying to convince Kostaja every single day to turn on Talerium, and he wouldn't. But Kerwin never sought to attack Darka. Eston would've lost that fight anyways.

[jaune]

Yes, Kerwin and KK had love/hate relationship... there was times when i thought "screw this Cagilan war, i will side with Tallies to make Kerwin shut up about attacking Talerium!"

Relations with Talerium, are propably not as close as they were with Eston, but they were easier. Talerium is much more "stable" and you can trust them, same was not with Kerwin and Eston, things happened fast without too much consulting... and even when consulting, our sayings were ignored...

But i guess RL cultures strike here as well, i have noticed on this game how diffrent people see treaties. Everything needs to be put in paper, or it will be abused, contracts are left with loopholes etc. Some rulers are just easier to talk and agree and even disagree. Example Ottar, we are close to hatred with our realms, but still i have no doubts that if i would get cease fire with Ottar that it would be kept by him at any cost... but if same would happen example with Duke Silvefire... it would not surprice me at all to see their armies march on our lands at next campaign with some awesome excuse.

-jaune

[Dante Silverfire]

but if same would happen example with Duke Silvefire... it would not surprice me at all to see their armies march on our lands at next campaign with some awesome excuse.

-jaune

Oh cmon. That is a terribly inaccurate statement. VERY special circumstances arose to give you that impression and is far from indicative of my character's trustworthiness. Not to mention, you could at least have the common courtesy to acknowledge that you were informed of the change prior to things proceeding differently. Instead of an agreement simply being broken. Also, I'd like to point out that the simple idea of a "cease fire" is defined as something which can be ended at a moments notice. There isn't peace, there just isn't fighting going on.

Back on topic: I think that Vellos has pointed out the three possible ways that we could become more dynamic. However, I believe Idea #3 is absolutely impossible. CE/Tara is made up of Sheeple. If it wasn't, they would have already broken up. I know because at various points I've tried to cause it to happen. (including when I was a member of CE itself). I know how their governments work and there is no way that such could work successfully long term without literally ANY dissent unless it was made up of sheeple.

Only #1 or #2 has a remote change of making the continent more dynamic. Each of course has problems. The first has the problem that it requires Darka to actually die. Something which I see as increasingly unlikely. The second has the problem that it requires highly ambitious nobles to not only seek that ambition but to have a chance of succeeding. I don't think anyone who is aware of Atamara's recent history would contest that my character is probably the single most ambitious noble in the CE bloc, and he was soundly squashed from this last attempts of seeking ambitious changes. At the risk of sounding arrogant, I don't think #2 would occur to change things if Merlin can't even pull it off. Which leaves #1 as the only situation which could change things, and even then is unlikely and will take some time.

[Indirik]

Oh cmon. That is a terribly inaccurate statement. VERY special circumstances arose to give you that impression and is far from indicative of my character's trustworthiness. Not to mention, you could at least have the common courtesy to acknowledge that you were informed of the change prior to things proceeding differently. Instead of an agreement simply being broken. Also, I'd like to point out that the simple idea of a "cease fire" is defined as something which can be ended at a moments notice. There isn't peace, there just isn't fighting going on.

There's your awesome excuse jaune: "It was only a ceasefire. And besides, I told you about it."

Despite the claims of how your character acts, the general impression among the characters I played with on AT (and not just those in Darka) was that Merlin was very sneaky/lawyerish, and would be happy to finagle a technicality to get around a treaty. I will grant hat some of this almost certainly came from a general impression of Coria after events like the "family visit". It rubs off on people that are associated with realms that do things like that.

[Dante Silverfire]

Despite the claims of how your character acts, the general impression among the characters I played with on AT (and not just those in Darka) was that Merlin was very sneaky/lawyerish, and would be happy to finagle a technicality to get around a treaty. I will grant hat some of this almost certainly came from a general impression of Coria after events like the "family visit". It rubs off on people that are associated with realms that do things like that.

In all honesty, I think that any sort of reputation or impression that Coria is given or receives from the larger and more established realms is solely due to them trying to find ways to stop Coria from making things happen and make Atamara a more dynamic place. It's just more excuses to stagnate things imo. Coria is as far as I am aware, the realm doing the most recently and for a long time to change the status quo of the continent. Forgive me if that somehow gives us a bad rep.

[Eirikr]

Coria might be an interesting place to be, but as a player I would feel guilty joining them while they were still pretending to fighting Darka.   

I mean, come on, what we've thrown in has been pathetic (not that it's intentional).

In other news, Coria's had a lot of interesting turnover recently. We seem to keep attracting new folks and losing some of the old stagnators. With some luck, things might just get interesting again...

[Perth]

I mean, come on, what we've thrown in has been pathetic (not that it's intentional).

In other news, Coria's had a lot of interesting turnover recently. We seem to keep attracting new folks and losing some of the old stagnators. With some luck, things might just get interesting again...

Part of me wants to bring a character to Coria when Kerwin's gone, but I feel like I should give it some time so that 1) I don't play him the same as Kerwin and 2) people don't treat/see him the same as Kerwin.

[Stabbity]

Atamara needs one thing to shake things up: Pancakes.

[Elroy]

Perth,

You realize that in defending Kerwin you just contradicted your own statement about Arturius and Rieleston wanting to attack Darka, don't you?  Wanting to move through their lands and being upset over the loss of Massillion (considering the history of the cost of getting that duchy back after the secession by the Black Duke) is entirely different than wanting to attack Darka...which was a suggestion made by Kerwin to the realm council at one point in the war.

As far as "it needs to stop," I totally agree with you.

I do mostly post to correct the blatant misinformation you spread about Rieleston and the players of that realm...which you seem to do every chance you get.  You stop, and I will stop...pretty simple and far from arrogant.  The issues in game don't bother me one bit...I just see you and a couple of other players post insults or incorrect statements (like this issue to try and advance an IC agenda such as getting Darka to distrust Rieleston in an OOC forum) about certain realms, players, or religions, and when I have free moments in my life, I respond...when I don't have time, I don't feel compelled to satisfy someone else with a response that clearly won't be met with reason anyway.

[Dante Silverfire]

Part of me wants to bring a character to Coria when Kerwin's gone, but I feel like I should give it some time so that 1) I don't play him the same as Kerwin and 2) people don't treat/see him the same as Kerwin.

Not that I have a personal stake in this or anything but:

1. You do realize that pretty much everyone is okay with you making a new character on Atamara and he/she won't be persecuted right? I mean that was pretty much explicitly understood as the likely turnout when Kerwin signed the treaty.
2. If you don't want him to be played the same as Kerwin then don't. It's pretty simple as far as I know. Granted, if he's made in Coria he pretty much already has good friends looking out for him, unless he just goes completely against his father's legacy. (Which would be stupid as far as starting in Coria goes).
3. You should definitely join. Remember Diplomacy.

[Perth]

Perth,

You realize that in defending Kerwin you just contradicted your own statement about Arturius and Rieleston wanting to attack Darka, don't you?  Wanting to move through their lands and being upset over the loss of Massillion (considering the history of the cost of getting that duchy back after the secession by the Black Duke) is entirely different than wanting to attack Darka...which was a suggestion made by Kerwin to the realm council at one point in the war.

No. That was one example of Arturius' continuous push to escalate and fray relations with Darka. Another would be when he declared he would not allow any Darkan army to march through his duchy to attack Coria. Arturius wanted war with Darka, plain and simple. He didn't like them and didn't trust them.

Elroy was not on the realm council, so anything you think you know about what Kerwin said there has to be second hand information and second hand information from people to disliked Kerwin, at that. I honestly have no recollection of Kerwin ever proposing to attack Darka... that just doesn't make sense. Kerwin wanted to defeat the Cagilans more than anything else and it would have been impossible to do without Darka. Eston and Darka were the Northern Alliance.

I do mostly post to correct the blatant misinformation you spread about Rieleston and the players of that realm...which you seem to do every chance you get.  You stop, and I will stop...pretty simple and far from arrogant.  The issues in game don't bother me one bit...I just see you and a couple of other players post insults or incorrect statements (like this issue to try and advance an IC agenda such as getting Darka to distrust Rieleston in an OOC forum) about certain realms, players, or religions, and when I have free moments in my life, I respond...when I don't have time, I don't feel compelled to satisfy someone else with a response that clearly won't be met with reason anyway.

I don't spread "misinformation." You don't correct anything with reasonable arguments, you just come on here and say "Perth is a liar anything he says is wrong and how I say it happened, happened." It's insulting and just plain inflammatory. You seem to have this obsession that I'm out to get all the people in Rieleston--I'm not. Yes, I think they play the game in a terribly OOC, old boys club sort of way and I express my opinion about that. But I am in no way out to get them or turn anyone against them on the forums. You're the one who's sole purpose on this forum seems to be to color me in a bad light.

[Perth]

Not that I have a personal stake in this or anything but:

1. You do realize that pretty much everyone is okay with you making a new character on Atamara and he/she won't be persecuted right? I mean that was pretty much explicitly understood as the likely turnout when Kerwin signed the treaty.
2. If you don't want him to be played the same as Kerwin then don't. It's pretty simple as far as I know. Granted, if he's made in Coria he pretty much already has good friends looking out for him, unless he just goes completely against his father's legacy. (Which would be stupid as far as starting in Coria goes).
3. You should definitely join. Remember Diplomacy.

1. I know. But it's lame. I hate when people just replace a dead/exlied character with a new 2.0 version. Plus there seems to be a lot of hate for Kerwin around the island and people will still be prejudiced against the Perth name for a while.

2. I would try very hard not to, but without some time to simmer it can be hard to separate the two characters. I need a little time to let myself "forget" the plethora of IC info and connections that Kerwin has so that the new character can have a "fresh slate."

3. I probably will at some point. Maybe I'll wait until Darka falls/wins.

[Eirikr]

1. I know. But it's lame. I hate when people just replace a dead/exlied character with a new 2.0 version. Plus there seems to be a lot of hate for Kerwin around the island and people will still be prejudiced against the Perth name for a while.

2. I would try very hard not to, but without some time to simmer it can be hard to separate the two characters. I need a little time to let myself "forget" the plethora of IC info and connections that Kerwin has so that the new character can have a "fresh slate."

3. I probably will at some point. Maybe I'll wait until Darka falls/wins.

As far as #1, I already know the important players are fine with a new character. Most of them are after Kerwin specifically.