Order of Aristocrats

[Glaumring the Fox]

The way I have always seen BM is close to the Conan books ( Robert E Howard) or Richard Adams Shardik, and Game of Thrones, all very serious medieval fantasies with a low medieval setting and a but of magic thrown in, not LoTR as much. The gritty weird fantasy, BM is a pretty cool sandbox and Dwilight has some pretty cool player made fantasy that veers far away from being a medieval simulator, like Bloodstars, Bloodmoon fruit, and other oddities that do not detract from the believability of the world but add that extra bit of whimsy and spice to an interesting world. We are writing a low fantasy novel everytime we play and I am so glad we can mix certain aspects of fantasy into the game without it being full on orcs and wizards.

[Wolfang]

Are Mercenary bands allowed?

[JeVondair]

Royal houses. Which were actual families, actually related by actual blood.

Not just loose coalitions of nobles who were working toward some common purpose.

Besides, close political associations often resulted in family alliances sealed by oaths or marriage. This is so in pretty much every culture right around the globe and is super SMA. Consider the merchant family with eyes to landing noble titles, or the Noble Lord who wants his daughter to marry the prince so that his line might become blood royal?

[Ironsides]

They'd have to put up with Bowie, though, and that would be too much, for many people.

Bowie's not such a bad guy once you get to know him, and if you meet his high standards, and if you can tolerate his frequent cursing, and his quick temper, and his unpredictable behaviour, and his lechery, and his alcoholism, and his demonic interior, and his all around roguery.

Not to mention that you'd always be subservient to the guild founders. Realms, at least, hold the prospect of turnover, change, renewal, decay, being conquered, conquering others, etc. Guilds tend to get stale because there's no way to actually oust those at the top out of their positions. That's why guilds are so poor at making that kind of power structure. They require willing subservience, just like religions. So few people are willing to play along with that, except where required, such as in realms.

That is unless you suppose realms are the end all be all of power. What happens if the Aristocracy inverts that? Then whoever rules the most powerful Great House could rule more than one realm and issue titles and land as they see fit.

Royal houses. Which were actual families, actually related by actual blood.

Not just loose coalitions of nobles who were working toward some common purpose.

True, but only so far as the characters in the Great House do or do not marry each other (or their family members). This past few months have seen some high profile weddings, isn't that part of the purpose of the Great Houses? Maybe everyone should start thinking of their characters as members of a family and start aiming to connect their family with others.

On that note, Bowie is single and eligible! Any women crazy enough to share his bed and his name? Maybe we should host the first ever Dwilight version of The Bachelor?

[Indirik]

Bowie's not such a bad guy once you get to know him, and if you meet his high standards, and if you can tolerate his frequent cursing, and his quick temper, and his unpredictable behaviour, and his lechery, and his alcoholism, and his demonic interior, and his all around roguery.

I don't think I've ever played with any of your other characters, so I can't say how I might react to them. But reading Bowies letters often makes me want to claw my eyes out.

Having said that, I will readily admit that his actions (when safely viewed from afar) often make for some interesting situations, and keep life from getting too dull.

That is unless you suppose realms are the end all be all of power. What happens if the Aristocracy inverts that? Then whoever rules the most powerful Great House could rule more than one realm and issue titles and land as they see fit.

Interesting ambition. And, hey, everyone has to have a goal to shoot for, but that doesn't solve the base problem of how everyone playing along is still, in the guild, subservient to the guild founder. The guild, therefore, exists to serve the aims of the guild founder, who *can't* be kicked out or removed from his position, ever. He remains at the top, watching over everything. Again, it seems like you're trying to play realm politics, without the dedicated realm infrastructure and mechanics. How are you going to keep it dynamic enough to prevent it from getting stale, or preventing people from just leaving or losing interest?

The maintenance o guilds is also a PITA, and expecting people to form subsidiary guilds, and maintain them as well... I just don't see this ever gaining much traction as anything other than a big messaging system. Not to mention that having more than handful of nobles as full members will require a LOT of guildhouses for a rather significant expenditure in infrastructure, and a continual drain on guild funds due to regional taxes and maintenance fees. Your first few levels of guildhouses add quite a few members, but that quickly levels off. A guild that could hold half the nobles on Dwilight would be ... prohibitively expensive. (Proably requiring well over 1,000 gold a month in maintenance fees, not counting taxes.) The largest guild ever in BattleMaster, the Darkan Mercenary Company, peaked at 104 members (not all full members), and we always had problems shuffling people in and out of full membership due to membership constraints.

[Dante Silverfire]

The difference being, that even though it may not simulate medieval times accurately, A Song of Ice and Fire has Serious Medieval Atmosphere in spades. (One might even go so far as to call it Morbid Medieval Atmosphere...)

And yet, A Song of Ice and Fire also involves mercenaries being led by a noble house seeking to gain the throne. (book 5)

[Gustav Kuriga]

And yet, A Song of Ice and Fire also involves mercenaries being led by a noble house seeking to gain the throne. (book 5)

Nobles commanding mercenaries wasn't uncommon. And if I'm not mistaken, said noble was the one who had to be hidden away lest he be caught up in the rebellion that was taking place at the time...

[Anaris]

And yet, A Song of Ice and Fire also involves mercenaries being led by a noble house seeking to gain the throne. (book 5)

I haven't read book 5 yet, but the earlier books certainly have nobles hiring mercenaries.

They just don't have nobles who act as mercenaries.

[Tiridia]

The concept has some merit, especially if it encourages roleplaying relationships between families by marriages of NPC or and/or PC characters. Though it might very well happen that the actual master guild is not required in the long run. Regardless, I hope it will work out. It might if care is taken as to not let it turn into an empire for one man.

[Tandaros]

The concept has some merit, especially if it encourages roleplaying relationships between families by marriages of NPC or and/or PC characters. Though it might very well happen that the actual master guild is not required in the long run. Regardless, I hope it will work out. It might if care is taken as to not let it turn into an empire for one man.

I agree completely.

[Ironsides]

..Interesting ambition. And, hey, everyone has to have a goal to shoot for, but that doesn't solve the base problem of how everyone playing along is still, in the guild, subservient to the guild founder. The guild, therefore, exists to serve the aims of the guild founder, who *can't* be kicked out or removed from his position, ever. He remains at the top, watching over everything. Again, it seems like you're trying to play realm politics, without the dedicated realm infrastructure and mechanics. How are you going to keep it dynamic enough to prevent it from getting stale, or preventing people from just leaving or losing interest?

Not unlike a King-Duke combo? Not unlike a realm in general? The Aristocracy is another layer, a new arena/playing field. It will offer everyone exactly what they want to take from it - not unlike Battlemaster in general.

The maintenance o guilds is also a PITA, and expecting people to form subsidiary guilds, and maintain them as well... I just don't see this ever gaining much traction as anything other than a big messaging system. Not to mention that having more than handful of nobles as full members will require a LOT of guildhouses for a rather significant expenditure in infrastructure, and a continual drain on guild funds due to regional taxes and maintenance fees. Your first few levels of guildhouses add quite a few members, but that quickly levels off. A guild that could hold half the nobles on Dwilight would be ... prohibitively expensive. (Proably requiring well over 1,000 gold a month in maintenance fees, not counting taxes.) The largest guild ever in BattleMaster, the Darkan Mercenary Company, peaked at 104 members (not all full members), and we always had problems shuffling people in and out of full membership due to membership constraints.

I guess we will find out? I've never managed a monolith guild before, plus the second tier of guilds that will have to come with it.

Fun fun fun til her daddy takes the t-bird away!

The concept has some merit, especially if it encourages roleplaying relationships between families by marriages of NPC or and/or PC characters. Though it might very well happen that the actual master guild is not required in the long run. Regardless, I hope it will work out. It might if care is taken as to not let it turn into an empire for one man.

Then it's up to the aristocrats in the Great House to see to it that they are not taken advantage of, unless they choose to be in that circumstance (which we've seen in several cases in Battlemaster). Really, the aristocracy is only as effective or as dangerous as it is allowed to be.

The one thing it isn't designed to do, however, is cause every realm to form their own indigenous Great House to protect their own borders (like what used to happen with religions). That defeats the purpose of interconnecting the individual noble to a wider web of nobility.

I'm surprised this idea hasn't hatched somewhere on Battlemaster already? Or maybe it did but in a different guise?

[Vellos]

I'm surprised this idea hasn't hatched somewhere on Battlemaster already? Or maybe it did but in a different guise?

It did; just we usually call it a "clan."

[Gustav Kuriga]

It did; just we usually call it a "clan."

Wrong. If this were the case then any guild or secret society made by in-game means would be a "clan"

[Lefanis]

They just don't have nobles who act as mercenaries.

Second Sons.

[Anaris]

Second Sons.

...went into the priesthood.

And third sons went on the Crusades.