Titan System Revalation

[Tom]

After following the anonymous/pseudonomynous discussion, and linking back to the original:

I think the Titans should be public. They shouldn't have to hide. On the contrary, being a Titan should be considered an honour.

And I will come down like a ton of bricks on anyone who makes life for my Titans hard. And I mean that as in reversed onus of proof. You rip on my Titans, I'll rip you a new one. If you think that was unfair, you prove it to me.

[Tom]

System Summary
The whole proposal after giving it some thought and incorporating comments:

• We will have a new board on the forum, which is our "court".
• That board is open to all, but new topics can only be started through a page in the game which makes sure topics start with an identical format with all required information present. After a topic was started, replies are open for all. Also, this page makes sure the accused party is notified.
• Titans have moderator rights on this board.
• The identity of the Titans is public, as in you can look up in the members list who is a Titan.
• Discussions will follow a basic flow that goes from initial complaint, comments by whoever wants to comment, Titan decision and questions and clarifications if necessary.
• Titan decisions are final, the only one who can overturn them is me, and if you bug me with stuff you shouldn't, I'll become angry.

[egamma]

System Summary
The whole proposal after giving it some thought and incorporating comments:

• We will have a new board on the forum, which is our "court".
• That board is open to all, but new topics can only be started through a page in the game which makes sure topics start with an identical format with all required information present. After a topic was started, replies are open for all. Also, this page makes sure the accused party is notified.
• Titans have moderator rights on this board.
• The identity of the Titans is public, as in you can look up in the members list who is a Titan.
• Discussions will follow a basic flow that goes from initial complaint, comments by whoever wants to comment, Titan decision and questions and clarifications if necessary.
• Titan decisions are final, the only one who can overturn them is me, and if you bug me with stuff you shouldn't, I'll become angry.

Sounds good to me, Tom!

[Chenier]

Sounds good to me, Tom!

I have my reservations about this, but I think the best idea is simply to test drive the new system and then evaluate it after having experienced it. I just hope the system will be open to tweaks if some elements turn out not be work as expected.

My main concern is that the lack of anonymity of the titans will lead to suspicion of favoritism and foul play, with the impression that realms who have titans among their ranks will be favored over those who don't (which is technically true, to a certain extent, as titans are almost guaranteed to participate on the forums while some realms might not have anyone at all to give their realm's PoV).

[De-Legro]

After following the anonymous/pseudonomynous discussion, and linking back to the original:

I think the Titans should be public. They shouldn't have to hide. On the contrary, being a Titan should be considered an honour.

And I will come down like a ton of bricks on anyone who makes life for my Titans hard. And I mean that as in reversed onus of proof. You rip on my Titans, I'll rip you a new one. If you think that was unfair, you prove it to me.

I totally agree, if I was a Titan I would have no issue with people knowing that I was.

[Anaris]

I have my reservations about this, but I think the best idea is simply to test drive the new system and then evaluate it after having experienced it. I just hope the system will be open to tweaks if some elements turn out not be work as expected.

My main concern is that the lack of anonymity of the titans will lead to suspicion of favoritism and foul play, with the impression that realms who have titans among their ranks will be favored over those who don't (which is technically true, to a certain extent, as titans are almost guaranteed to participate on the forums while some realms might not have anyone at all to give their realm's PoV).

I don't, in general, disagree with you on this.

The problem with this particular concern, however, is that there are already groups who feel this way—even though they have no actual evidence for who the Titans are.

There are groups who are utterly convinced that they are being unfairly targeted by Tom and the Titans right now, due to the supposed control of their enemies by "GMs".

I honestly can't see that making the Titans' names and deliberations public is likely to make that worse.

[egamma]

I don't, in general, disagree with you on this.

The problem with this particular concern, however, is that there are already groups who feel this way—even though they have no actual evidence for who the Titans are.

There are groups who are utterly convinced that they are being unfairly targeted by Tom and the Titans right now, due to the supposed control of their enemies by "GMs".

I honestly can't see that making the Titans' names and deliberations public is likely to make that worse.

Well, part of the risk is that there's no way to make the Titans anonymous again, without choosing a completely new batch.

I know I wouldn't make a good Titan--most of the matters I've brought to their attention have been rejected, so I'm a little too zealous and lack a little understanding of the rules, still.

[Tom]

Setting things in motion here:

http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,819.0.html


Notice that there is not just a new name. The Magistrates will not be identical with the current Titans. I will choose new volunteers. Some of them may or may not be identical with current Titans. Most probably won't. The two systems will be running in parallel for a while, until I have a feeling which one is the better one.

There will be a call for volunteers on that board soon. Please don't bug me with "I want to be a Magistrate" until then.

[Perth]

Setting things in motion here:

http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,819.0.html


Notice that there is not just a new name. The Magistrates will not be identical with the current Titans. I will choose new volunteers. Some of them may or may not be identical with current Titans. Most probably won't. The two systems will be running in parallel for a while, until I have a feeling which one is the better one.

There will be a call for volunteers on that board soon. Please don't bug me with "I want to be a Magistrate" until then.

Might I suggest a section to hold locked, finished cases? It would build a bit of a precedent library that way future decisions can reference past decided cases as further evidence of certain things being allowed/disallowed, etc.

[Tom]

I'll improve things as we need them. There will probably need for an archive, but I'm not sure it will need a seperate board.

[^ban^]

I'll improve things as we need them. There will probably need for an archive, but I'm not sure it will need a seperate board.

An archival board has the advantage of keeping old content from cluttering up the new and active stuff. It also makes searching for precedents much easier.

[Tom]

Yes, but a "commentary" would be much better if someone feels like doing it - a collection of precedents ordered by topic and with summaries. Like we have in real-world law. And I'm not sure how much it'll clutter. We will have to see. Anyways, an archive is always something we can add later.

[Indirik]

Yes, but a "commentary" would be much better if someone feels like doing it - a collection of precedents ordered by topic and with summaries. Like we have in real-world law. And I'm not sure how much it'll clutter. We will have to see. Anyways, an archive is always something we can add later.

Use the wiki for an archive, with commentary.

[^ban^]

Use the wiki for an archive, with commentary.

That's just replicating information that will already be saved. It isn't as though the threads will vanish without someone deleting them, so why replicate them?

[Tom]

Nobody is speaking about duplication. A good commentary reads something like "three warnings are generally considered to be a good standard until an OOC ban is issued, except in the case of very blatant offenses (see case 1, case 2 and case 3 as well as case 4 and case 5 for exceptions)".

In other words, it would sum up similar decisions and link to them for details.