Author Topic: Placeholder Duke  (Read 5626 times)

Bendix

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Re: Placeholder Duke
« Reply #15: June 26, 2013, 01:49:04 AM »
Well, other than the obvious. I feel like I should be doing something proactively to make this right. Would it be appropriate to issue an OOC apology and explanation to my realm to prevent others from breaking this rule in the future?

Geronus

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Re: Placeholder Duke
« Reply #16: June 26, 2013, 01:52:11 AM »
That's fine, though it's likely a public warning will be given in addition to any other consequences that are decided upon. Assuming that code works anyway  :o

Chenier

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Re: Placeholder Duke
« Reply #17: June 26, 2013, 02:36:28 AM »
Yep, that looks about as obvious as it gets, placeholder-wise.

Maybe you can refresh my memory, but wasn't that ruled aimed at the people making the suggestion/command, and not the people doing the stepping down itself? As in, it's against the rules to ask someone to sit on a title until another character becomes available again, but not the act of sitting on the title itself.

'cause if the guy doesn't really want the position, what are you gonna do, force him to keep it?

Anaris

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Re: Placeholder Duke
« Reply #18: June 26, 2013, 03:19:45 AM »
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Chenier

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Re: Placeholder Duke
« Reply #19: June 26, 2013, 03:49:16 AM »
The whole thing is against the rules.

If the guy didn't want the position, he shouldn't have taken it in the first place.

(We had a whole discussion about exactly this on IRC today, and that's basically the part that I had to keep coming back to.)

Granted, I didn't take time to properly read the situation, but in many situations, appointments are made without the appointee knowing in advance.

Bendix

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Re: Placeholder Duke
« Reply #20: June 26, 2013, 05:06:47 AM »
« Last Edit: June 26, 2013, 05:15:34 AM by Bendix »

Geronus

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Re: Placeholder Duke
« Reply #21: June 26, 2013, 03:48:10 PM »
Whelp, that seems fairly cut and dry to me...

Chenier

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Re: Placeholder Duke
« Reply #22: July 02, 2013, 01:14:47 PM »
Whelp, that seems fairly cut and dry to me...

Is it...? He wasn't forced to step down after the appointment, though mentioning it is suggestive.

Bendix

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Re: Placeholder Duke
« Reply #23: July 03, 2013, 12:58:17 AM »
Maybe I can provide some context.

This incident arose from In-Character reasons; Dread is very old, and also the founder of the realm, and Autrey wants him to live out his last years with dignity and respect. She sees him as a mentor. This has been an ongoing thing ever since Autrey took power. Autrey chose Artimus because Dread is a longtime friend and mentor to him as well, and she hoped Artimus would feel the same way about respecting an elder.

If you want to know who is technically at fault, I don't know. I DO know that I personally violated, at the very least, the spirit of the law by re-appointing Dread, because my intent behind appointing Artimus was ultimately to get Dread back in the Ducal Seat, and I forgot there was a law against it. I'm ready to take full responsibility for that; ignorance of the law is no excuse.

However, it is a little alarming to me that making a theoretical interpretation of a Ruler's language would have any bearing on any trial, either presently or in the future:

"your options become suggestions to them, and your suggestion become orders to them."

This is an illogical theory, at least in this case: if a Ruler gives a Subject two options without expressing an opinion on either option, how is the Subject supposed to know which option the Ruler wants him to pick? For all Artimus could have known, I might have wanted him NOT to give the power back; at no point did I tell him that I would prefer him to step down.

Anaris

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Re: Placeholder Duke
« Reply #24: July 03, 2013, 08:53:27 PM »
I have split the off-topic messages off into a new thread.

Any further messages on that subject in this thread will be summarily deleted. If you want to discuss it, go to the new thread.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Geronus

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Re: Placeholder Duke
« Reply #25: July 08, 2013, 05:37:42 PM »
Apologies for the delayed response. We have been holding off on issuing a verdict while the Devs add some features to the Magistrate interface. The voting has been reset and a verdict should be issued within a few days.

Geronus

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Re: Placeholder Duke
« Reply #26: July 14, 2013, 04:48:03 PM »
A verdict has been reached, and necessary IG enforcement actions have been taken. For anyone who desires to cite this case in the future, the final verdict was:

"The Magistrates find the defendant guilty of appointing a placeholder Duke with the intent of returning the position to its previous holder at the earliest opportunity. While technically the placeholder was offered a choice as to whether or not to step down from the Duchy command, the intent of the appointment was made clear from the first. As a result of this, the Ruler who made the appointments will be stripped of all titles for a minimum of two weeks. The Duke who was granted his position back will also be stripped of his titles for the same duration."

Magistrates voted 7-0 in favor of the guilty verdict, with 1 in favor of a warning and 6 in favor of stripping the titles of the Ruler and Duke. Titles have been stripped. This thread will be locked after a few more days.

Bendix

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Re: Placeholder Duke
« Reply #27: July 14, 2013, 09:23:39 PM »
Just FYI, I resigned as ruler voluntarily, completely for in-character reasons, before the verdict was entered. I hope this doesn't cause any problems. I did not see a "Magistrate Message" stating I was barred from the 'Ruler' position, possibly because I was not ruler at the time. I do not intend to run for re-election as ruler of the realm, regardless, but I just want to be sure this doesn't become a separate issue.

Thank you all for your fair and appropriate treatment of my case. It won't happen again.